Help ID Parasite on Clownfish

[todddye]

I'm fighting a disease with a pair of snowflake clowns, which I thought was velvet at first but I'm now second guessing myself. I've had them quarantined since I received them 4 weeks ago, but used a seeded filter from my main display tank which may have had something on it.

I dosed Coppersafe to 2 PPM 4 days ago when I suspected they had either ICH or Velvet, but it doesnt seem to have had any effect. In fact, the white spots have increased in numbers since then but fish are still eating and acting ok but flashing occasionally. Could someone with experience take a look at the photo below and give me your opinion?

The larger spot on the side has always been there and is a typical beauty mark.

 

[todddye]

Picture of other side.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

You say the seeded filter may have contained something. Why do you say that and what could it have contained? Have they been exhibiting signs of disease the whole 4 weeks in quarantine? If not how long ago did they begin exhibiting symptoms?

 

[HumbleFish]

I can't tell anything definitive from the pics, but it could be Brooklynella. If so, you should start to notice a thick white mucus covering the fish's body. It will almost look as though their skin is sloughing off.

However, if this is ich then the white spots should be salt or sugar-like “sprinkles” on the body or fins, and appear to be under the skin. Copper only targets one stage of the parasite's life cycle, so not seeing immediate results doesn't mean it's not ich (or velvet).

Here is a sticky you should read about Brook: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

 

[todddye]

I had a PBT start showing signs of ich or velvet last Monday in my main tank. I moved the PBT and all other fish to a hospital tank dosed with Coppersafe to 2PPM when I got home from traveling on Wednesday but the PBT died that evening. 2 days later, 1 of the 2 clowns in the HT tank died, and 1 other is still showing signs of ich/velvet. I have a rusty angel, lawnmower blenny, hawkfish, and 3 chromis who all appear to be un-phased by any of this.

The seeded filters were in my main tank for 2 weeks until I received the new pair of clowns approximately 5 weeks ago. The new pair has been in a separate tank away from all others the whole time, so the only common thread was the seeded filter. I dosed the clowns with Coppersafe in the QT they have been in since I got them when I saw them flashing and acting slightly lethargic. Since then, white spots have appeared on them but they are still acting ok aside from the occasional flash. Their appetite is not as voracious as it has been, but I'm thinking that may have something to do with the garlic I've been soaking their mysis and pellets in.

I did a F/W dip for 10 minutes on the clowns yesterday and didnt notice much - if anything - drop off of them.

I apologize in advance for this as I am sure it is confusing, but I'm not sure how else to describe the situation aside from chaos.

 

[snorvich]

I had a PBT start showing signs of ich or velvet last Monday in my main tank. I moved the PBT and all other fish to a hospital tank dosed with Coppersafe to 2PPM when I got home from traveling on Wednesday but the PBT died that evening. 2 days later, 1 of the 2 clowns in the HT tank died, and 1 other is still showing signs of ich/velvet. I have a rusty angel, lawnmower blenny, hawkfish, and 3 chromis who all appear to be un-phased by any of this.

The seeded filters were in my main tank for 2 weeks until I received the new pair of clowns approximately 5 weeks ago. The new pair has been in a separate tank away from all others the whole time, so the only common thread was the seeded filter. I dosed the clowns with Coppersafe in the QT they have been in since I got them when I saw them flashing and acting slightly lethargic. Since then, white spots have appeared on them but they are still acting ok aside from the occasional flash. Their appetite is not as voracious as it has been, but I'm thinking that may have something to do with the garlic I've been soaking their mysis and pellets in.

I did a F/W dip for 10 minutes on the clowns yesterday and didnt notice much - if anything - drop off of them.

I apologize in advance for this as I am sure it is confusing, but I'm not sure how else to describe the situation aside from chaos.

If you want maximal attention, it is always best to start your own thread rather than hop on the the tail end of a thread started by someone else that already is responded to.

 

[todddye]

Here is a picture of the other clown from my main tank who is also afflicted. This does look different than the snowflake in the first 2 pictures.

 

[todddye]

If you want maximal attention, it is always best to start your own thread rather than hop on the the tail end of a thread started by someone else that already is responded to.

I am the OP. :wave:

 

[HumbleFish]

Here is a picture of the other clown from my main tank who is also afflicted. This does look different than the snowflake in the first 2 pictures.

That's Brook

 

[todddye]

I agree. The PBT that died looked similar but worse.

Do you think I should treat all as if they have Brook even the clowns that were in another tank - but seeded from my main tank?

What would be the best way to switch from Coppersafe to Formalin?

 

[HumbleFish]

Do you think I should treat all as if they have Brook even the clowns that were in another tank - but seeded from my main tank?

Yes, because the seeded filter from the DT likely cross contaminated your QT.

What would be the best way to switch from Coppersafe to Formalin?

You would need to remove all copper (run carbon or a poly filter, combined with water changes) before treating with formalin. Or just start over with all new water if feasible (with Brook, you don't have much time to act). All fish from the DT need to be treated, and the DT itself needs to be left fallow for 6 weeks.

 

[todddye]

Thank you for the advice!

1 last question - could I also do a tank transfer after a f/w dip to a tank with formalin?

I'm concerned about the time I wasted with Coppersafe since it doesn't help Brook. It may take me a while to run a filter long enough to remove the copper, although I have no idea how well the Poly filters work - maybe it's not long at all.

 

[HumbleFish]

1 last question - could I also do a tank transfer after a f/w dip to a tank with formalin?

Yes, but I wouldn't add formalin until after the fish is in clean water. And have an exit strategy just in case he has an adverse reaction, as some fish just don't handle formalin well. You can administer formalin baths in lieu of treating the QT, but the fish must then be transferred to clean water (like doing tank transfer) after each bath to prevent reinfection.

In his sticky, snorvich discusses using acriflavine and metronidazole to treat brook. I've used metro to treat intestinal parasites, but I have no first hand experience using either drug to treat brook. Only formalin.

 

[snorvich]

That's Brook

It is indeed.

 

[todddye]

Now that it's identified, I can't find formalin or Quick Cure anywhere local. Even Walmart seems to be out of stock.

What would be an alternative that I could find locally?

 

[HumbleFish]

Have you tried Petco/smart for Quick Cure? You might need to go over there and see what they have. Look for anything that contains formalin or formaldehyde; for example, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X contains formaldehyde. Any med with even a small percentage should buy you enough time until you can get your hands on something with 37% formaldehyde, like Formalin-MS.

 

[todddye]

I found Quick Cure at Walmart in the clearance rack. I found out that the manufacturer discontinued it which is why I had a hard time finding it.

I followed Steve's blog for dosage amounts for the dip and long term bath, but didnt dose the bath at full strength until I could confirm the fish reacted ok.

I finished cleaning the tanks and refilling them about 11 hours ago, and the clowns spots have disappeared except for one larger spot which looks like it's coming off.

My questions at this point are:
1.) The largest clown has several spots that look slightly raw, likely from where the parasite was. Is Furan 2 the antibacterial of choice and should I use it now or wait to see if the spots heal?

2.) Since I only dosed the QTs with half dose, should I add more to get to the full dose or do I need to start over with a full dose? I'm basically unsure of the half-life of Quick Cure since the directions on bottle state to add 1 drop per gallon per day and Steve's blog doesnt mention re-dosing is required.

I really appreciate your help so far!!!!

 

[HumbleFish]

1.) The largest clown has several spots that look slightly raw, likely from where the parasite was. Is Furan 2 the antibacterial of choice and should I use it now or wait to see if the spots heal?

It's a judgement call, really. It's entirely possible the wounds will heal without the use of antibiotics. However, infection is also possible - so Furan 2 would be my choice for playing it safe. Just don't use antibiotics (or any other medication) while treating with formalin.

2.) Since I only dosed the QTs with half dose, should I add more to get to the full dose or do I need to start over with a full dose? I'm basically unsure of the half-life of Quick Cure since the directions on bottle state to add 1 drop per gallon per day and Steve's blog doesnt mention re-dosing is required.

I would go with the full dose, as Quick Cure probably doesn't contain 37% formaldehyde (I've read conflicting things). Whether or not using Quick Cure is potent enough to completely knock this out remains to be seen. I've seen it go both ways, and sometimes only using Formalin-MS eradicates Brook once & for all. But one upside of using Quick Cure is that it also contains Malachite Green, and I believe that helps heal wounds (so antibiotics may not be needed).

 

[todddye]

Ok, I understand. I'll try to source some MS.

With Formalin-MS will I still need to re-dose every day or some other interval?

 

[HumbleFish]

With Formalin-MS will I still need to re-dose every day or some other interval?

Yes, it's 2 drops per gal every other day "until control is achieved" as they say on their website. This tells me that formaldehyde doesn't remain active for very long. If you do the 30-45 bath with Formalin-MS, it's 20 drops per gallon.