Help Identify, is it velvet?

[Tuffloud1]

No, and no. About 5% of fish seem to develop temporary immunity to ich that lasts about six months, but they still carry it so it will be passed on to all fish introduced into the tank or will reinfect those that did not die.

Also, unless you develop a quarantine protocol, one day you will contract one of the more deadly parasites like velvet. Not quarantining is like playing Russian Roulette: noone wins the game, some just get to play longer.

Okay, I have to sift through all the nonsense that is out there.

My LFS says ich is in "everything" and can only affect fish if their immune system is down or they are stressed.

With that said, is it normal to see aiptasia anemones all over coral tanks at fish stores?

 

[snorvich]

Okay, I have to sift through all the nonsense that is out there.

My LFS says ich is in "everything" and can only affect fish if their immune system is down or they are stressed.

A popular but incorrect point of view.

With that said, is it normal to see aiptasia anemones all over coral tanks at fish stores?

Define normal. And by the way, your LFS has ich in their tanks so any fish purchased will reintroduced it.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Define normal.

I would like to setup a "visually friendly" quarantine tank if that makes sense.

Do you have any recommendations or links to examples of nice looking quarantine tanks that appear a little more like an actual DT?

 

[Deinonych]

Okay, I have to sift through all the nonsense that is out there.

My LFS says ich is in "everything" and can only affect fish if their immune system is down or they are stressed.

This is a myth that continues to be perpetuated by those that don't understand the biology of the parasite. It is possible to have an ich-free tank with proper quarantine and biosecurity practices.

With that said, is it normal to see aiptasia anemones all over coral tanks at fish stores?

Not sure about "normal," but I certainly wouldn't buy frags from a tank full of Aiptasia.

 

[snorvich]

I would like to setup a "visually friendly" quarantine tank if that makes sense.

Do you have any recommendations or links to examples of nice looking quarantine tanks that appear a little more like an actual DT?

Well, I suggest always doing tank transfer (which is not visually appealing) followed by a month of observation (which could be in a visually appealing) fully cycled quarantine tank. During the month of observation two treatments of prazipro would be done for flukes. This has some implicit benefits: some LFS run a low level of copper which masks certain parasites so the extended observation allows for those parasites to exhibit symptoms; secondly it gives a fish time to adjust to captivity with you and strengthen their feeding response.

 

[snorvich]

Not sure about "normal," but I certainly wouldn't buy frags from a tank full of Aiptasia.

Amen to that.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Well, I suggest always doing tank transfer (which is not visually appealing) followed by a month of observation (which could be in a visually appealing) fully cycled quarantine tank. During the month of observation two treatments of prazipro would be done for flukes. This has some implicit benefits: some LFS run a low level of copper which masks certain parasites so the extended observation allows for those parasites to exhibit symptoms; secondly it gives a fish time to adjust to captivity with you and strengthen their feeding response.

Maybe I missed this part. When you say always do a tank transfer, what exactly does that mean? Are you just reiterating that moving all fish to a quarantine tank is essential to rid DT of parasites? I just want to make sure the transfer you speak of isn't in addition to moving all the fish and placing in the quarantine tank.

Thanks for all your help/guidance on this.

 

[snorvich]

Maybe I missed this part. When you say always do a tank transfer, what exactly does that mean?

Thanks for all your help/guidance on this.

Tank transfer is described here. The keys to success are:

1. No more than 72 hours can a fish be present in a given transfer water. Although less is fine.

2. Always 12 days summation for all transfer cycles. So that could be 2x2x2x2x2x2 or 3x3x3x3.

3. Use prime for ammonia neutralization and an airstone for aeration

4. Use newly made saltwater of same temperature and SG

5. A transfer tank must be totally dry before being used

and tank transfer time (12 days or more) plus observation time totally at least 5 weeks.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Tank transfer is described here. The keys to success are:

1. No more than 72 hours can a fish be present in a given transfer water. Although less is fine.

2. Always 12 days summation for all transfer cycles. So that could be 2x2x2x2x2x2 or 3x3x3x3.

3. Use prime for ammonia neutralization and an airstone for aeration

4. Use newly made saltwater of same temperature and SG

5. A transfer tank must be totally dry before being used

and tank transfer time (12 days or more) plus observation time totally at least 5 weeks.

Okay, so how many tanks aside from my DT will I need, I'm trying to understand. I thought treatment is what kills the parasites.

 

[snorvich]

Okay, so how many tanks aside from my DT will I need, I'm trying to understand. I thought treatment is what kills the parasites.

Tank transfer is the most effective for eliminating ich but it will have no effect on other parasites such as velvet, brook, or uronema. To do this hobby right, you should have the ability to do tank transfer which requires a couple of tubs or small tanks. It is also desirable to have a tank that is cycled to be used as a quarantine tank for fish and/or inverts. Chemical treatment of ich can be done but because of the vagaries of the back end of the ich life cycle it is not the best way since you would have to do it for so long and because controlling the chemical substance (or hyposalinity) is difficult at best. Chemical treatment of the other more lethal parasites must be done.

 

[Spar]

5. A transfer tank must be totally dry before being used

Just to expand a little - needs to be completely dry AND to have been completely dry for at least 24 hours.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Tank transfer is the most effective for eliminating ich but it will have no effect on other parasites such as velvet, brook, or uronema. To do this hobby right, you should have the ability to do tank transfer which requires a couple of tubs or small tanks. It is also desirable to have a tank that is cycled to be used as a quarantine tank for fish and/or inverts. Chemical treatment of ich can be done but because of the vagaries of the back end of the ich life cycle it is not the best way since you would have to do it for so long and because controlling the chemical substance (or hyposalinity) is difficult at best. Chemical treatment of the other more lethal parasites must be done.

Okay, so do you recommend having 3 tanks total - 2 for transfers, 1 for quarantine?

Should I do the transfer process followed by the quarantine process on my current fish that are in my display in addition to every fish I buy in the future?

In essence, I should assume that every fish is infected with ich and velvet and treat accordingly.

At this point, do I need to worry about my corals, shrimps and snails carrying anything that could hurt my fish provided I take all the necessary steps to get the fish out of the DT and let them sit for 12 weeks?

In the future, when bringing new corals into DT, can they carry ich, velvet into tank even after dipping with Coral RX?

 

[snorvich]

Okay, so do you recommend having 3 tanks total - 2 for transfers, 1 for quarantine?

Should I do the transfer process followed by the quarantine process on my current fish that are in my display in addition to every fish I buy in the future?

Yes. The problem is that your current display tank has ich and must be without fish or any new additions for 12 weeks

In essence, I should assume that every fish is infected with ich and velvet and treat accordingly.

Since ich is not always visible or can be masked under some circumstances, it is always wise to eliminate ich from the equation. Velvet can be masked by a non-therpeutic dose of copper, but will always exhibit symptoms after 3 weeks away from saltwater containing copper

At this point, do I need to worry about my corals, shrimps and snails carrying anything that could hurt my fish provided I take all the necessary steps to get the fish out of the DT and let them sit for 12 weeks?

No issue with inverts. Ich needs a fish host to exist and if one is not available in the fallow time period, it dies out.

In the future, when bringing new corals into DT, can they carry ich, velvet into tank even after dipping with Coral RX?

anything wet should be quarantined even if dipped with Coral Rx or similar; they could be quarantined in your cycled quarantine used after the tank transfer process.

Also and important. Do not have your quarantine tank adjacent/close to your display tank.

 

[snorvich]

Just to expand a little - needs to be completely dry AND to have been completely dry for at least 24 hours.

Yes. I should have mentioned that.

 

[Tuffloud1]

anything wet should be quarantined even if dipped with Coral Rx or similar; they could be quarantined in your cycled quarantine used after the tank transfer process.

Also and important. Do not have your quarantine tank adjacent/close to your display tank.

What kind of container do you use for the transfer tanks ?

Can the transfer and quarantine tanks be close together?

 

[Spar]

What kind of container do you use for the transfer tanks ?

Can the transfer and quarantine tanks be close together?

i'd recommend at minimum 10g tanks. cheap and can see the fish well. many people simply use buckets, such as the ones from home depot... but you can't see the fish to diagnose; works for the Ich removal part well enough though. if you have larger or several fish to quarantine, then you need a larger tank. I currently am using 29g tanks for TTM.

best to keep the tanks at least a few feet apart to at least keep inadvertent splashing of large amounts of water from happening. Ich and other parasites can transfer from one tank to another via air bubbles bursting, etc, during their infectious stages. But, with TTM, you will never have infectious stage Ich, so you have less to worry about.

 

[snorvich]

i'd recommend at minimum 10g tanks. cheap and can see the fish well. many people simply use buckets, such as the ones from home depot... but you can't see the fish to diagnose; works for the Ich removal part well enough though. if you have larger or several fish to quarantine, then you need a larger tank. I currently am using 29g tanks for TTM.

best to keep the tanks at least a few feet apart to at least keep inadvertent splashing of large amounts of water from happening. Ich and other parasites can transfer from one tank to another via air bubbles bursting, etc, during their infectious stages. But, with TTM, you will never have infectious stage Ich, so you have less to worry about.

This. I use 20 gallon tanks for TT, but a 29 is a luxury size.

 

[Spar]

This. I use 20 gallon tanks for TT, but a 29 is a luxury size.

only the finest for my fish -- actually, i hate this 29g TTM treatment... pain in the rear and takes for ever to switch out. I even managed to chip the bleepers out of my 29g's while cleaning. can't wait to move back to 10/20g's again! And to think I almost bought two 40g's instead.

one more transfer to go!

 

[snorvich]

Jeez, a 40 gallon would be unmanageable for me. You planning for baby whale sharks? A 29 is borderline unmanageable for me as well. I prefer 10 gallon tanks but Craig's list was the source.

 

[Tuffloud1]

i'd recommend at minimum 10g tanks. cheap and can see the fish well. many people simply use buckets, such as the ones from home depot... but you can't see the fish to diagnose; works for the Ich removal part well enough though. if you have larger or several fish to quarantine, then you need a larger tank. I currently am using 29g tanks for TTM.

best to keep the tanks at least a few feet apart to at least keep inadvertent splashing of large amounts of water from happening. Ich and other parasites can transfer from one tank to another via air bubbles bursting, etc, during their infectious stages. But, with TTM, you will never have infectious stage Ich, so you have less to worry about.

What about flow for the TTM containers, should I use bubblers? Would I need to discard between transfers?

For the transfers, I am using freshly mixed saltwater correct?

I was thinking I could just use numerous HD 5 gal buckets for each group of fish to keep possible aggression down from being in an enclosed space. My flame and tang go at it a little here and there, but in a 90 gal DT.

I can just mix the salt directly in each bucket before transferring in was my thought.