Help me build the perfect Mangrove tank!

[d2mini]

I'm thinking of adding on a separate mangrove tank to my system, fed via my manifold from my return line so I can control the flow.

I have the space for a cube shaped tank, something like 20x20.
Maybe 22x22 or somewhere in between.

Looking for input on the best way to set it up:

Substrate (what kind and how much), height of the tank, how much flow, how many seedlings, lighting, and the best way to design the actual tank as far as plumbing it, creating any kind of overflows or partitions, etc. I saw a tank that one of you guys was working on in the mangrove thread that had some interesting dividers to control flow I assume?

Anyway, since I am starting from scratch with a separate tank, I'd like to know the best way to go about it from those that have the experience.
For now, lets just say money is no object.
The only stipulation is it has to stay linked in to the rest of my system.
It will be located in my fish room, next to the frag tank and above the sump and refugium.

FYI, it's mainly just for fun. I know I won't have enough to make a dent in my systems as far as nutrient control. I will have a separate refugium tank. And although I would plan on starting with several plants, my loooong term goal for this tank would be to end up with one giant mangrove bonsai like Julian Sprung.

Thanks!

 

[JLynn]

Check out Giga's guide to mangroves! (It is a sticky.)

As for how many mangroves... I am no expert, but I imagine that you should limit yourself to just 1 or 2 in a tank that small. In the short term, it would be no problem to have many more than that, but 10 years down the road, your tree(s) will fill up that tank pretty well and overcrowding may become a concern.

 

[d2mini]

Yes gigas thread has lots of good info. Still lots of unanswered questions though. I agree that long term one or two plants is all I can fit but was thinking of starting with several and then later get rid of the slower growers. Not necessary, just a thought.

But first thing's first! Would really like to nail down a proper setup.

 

[Giga]

ask away i'll answer!

 

[d2mini]

ask away i'll answer!

First post has all my questions and I think the only thing that was covered in your sticky was the lighting.

If it's easier to break it down, lets start at the beginning of the setup.
What should I do if starting with a naked 20x20 cube tank that needs to be fed with water coming from the rest of the system and then drain back into the rest of the system? You mention in your sticky that the tank should be set up specifically for mangroves, which I completely agree with and is exactly why I'm here. So what would you do?

Thanks!

 

[JLynn]

Was it really only lighting? Well, at least in the thread on Nano Reef there was more than that.

About the soil, some type of mulm would be best, but sand and even potting soil will work (though of course you don't want to have potting soil in your system). Mangrove.at (it is a website) sells "Mangrove Mud" on their website, along with a variety of mangrove species that you have probably never heard of before. For example, apparently some mangrove species have roots that look like the cyprus trees you might find in a Louisiana swamp. They have some information on the care and growth of each one, too. More generally, I am sure that any sort of live sand will suffice. The goal, really, is to make sure that there are plenty of nutrients in the soil to support and sustain growth.

 

[d2mini]

Was it really only lighting? Well, at least in the thread on Nano Reef there was more than that.

About the soil, some type of mulm would be best, but sand and even potting soil will work (though of course you don't want to have potting soil in your system). Mangrove.at (it is a website) sells "Mangrove Mud" on their website, along with a variety of mangrove species that you have probably never heard of before. For example, apparently some mangrove species have roots that look like the cyprus trees you might find in a Louisiana swamp. They have some information on the care and growth of each one, too. More generally, I am sure that any sort of live sand will suffice. The goal, really, is to make sure that there are plenty of nutrients in the soil to support and sustain growth.

No, i meant answers to my specific questions. I only saw answers about the lighting.
Maybe i missed others? The pics are humongous so I had to do a lot of scrolling back and forth to read the text and figure out what I was looking at.
Great info from what I saw, though.

I'll check out that mangrove site! Thanks!
Last time, i did pretty well with using the same sand I use for my tank... sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater. I'll be ordering from them again soon so I could get extra for this tank. And my current fuge has Walt Smith's Fiji Mud, which I got specifically for future mangrove roots to root in, but right now the only thing that grows in there is hair algae. I suspect the mud may be a nutrient sink? I dunno... but I'm leary of using mud again. I could be talked into trying a different kind though, if that's proven to be better than sand.

Thanks!

 

[saltwater sam]

That mangrove mud special shouldn't be put in aquariums, it leaks nutrients into the water. I use refugium mineral mud, but you have to be careful to keep it contained otherwise it will cloud up your water. FYI if you want to order plants from outside USA you need a USDA import permit. I have actually gone through that process and it's kind of a hassle!

 

[d2mini]

Yeah, i was just reading that warning about the mud on their website and was wondering about getting plants through customs. Figured that wouldn't work so well.

 

[LelandF.]

I just started a 20 gal long off of my main tank with 3 mangroves, I planted together to look like 1 bigger tree. I used oolite sand. We go to Florida every summer and I always bring back seagrasses and cool things I'd like to showcase, like Florida pipefish, and seahorses, so I thought I'd build a tank.

For lighting I used a piece of 1/2" galv. conduit, bent 90 degrees, painted black. I wired an led flood light from lowes on the end. The light has two movable lights, with 20 LEDs in each light. The spectrum is around 7000k, and it is BRIGHT to say the least. Thalassia, syringodium, and the mangroves are doing great under it. I can raise the light easily by sliding the conduit up or down.

Leland

 

[d2mini]

I just started a 20 gal long off of my main tank with 3 mangroves, I planted together to look like 1 bigger tree. I used oolite sand. We go to Florida every summer and I always bring back seagrasses and cool things I'd like to showcase, like Florida pipefish, and seahorses, so I thought I'd build a tank.

For lighting I used a piece of 1/2" galv. conduit, bent 90 degrees, painted black. I wired an led flood light from lowes on the end. The light has two movable lights, with 20 LEDs in each light. The spectrum is around 7000k, and it is BRIGHT to say the least. Thalassia, syringodium, and the mangroves are doing great under it. I can raise the light easily by sliding the conduit up or down.

Leland

Nice!
How did you plumb the tank? How is water getting to the 20L, and how is it getting out? How many inches of sand? Any pics?

 

[LelandF.]

I'll take a pic & post it tonight. I have a 2-3" deep sand bed. The water level is about 8". I drain the drain through a 1" bulkhead on the side, and pump water in from a 3/4" bulkhead on the opposite side. A mag drive 500 feeds the tank from my sump, and it drains back to the sump downstream of the pump.

Leland

 

[Giga]

I have no idea why the pictures are so large-I'll ask a mod to fix that-go to nano reef and go to the macro algae section and the pics are not so big. I cover a lot of this, maybe just missed it since pic are so massive here. Substrate is not that picky-you can use sand(I use reef safe fertilizer pills,api has good ones), silt mud, bonsai soil, potting soil(don't use this one lol). I recommend 3" as a minimum but it can be done in less if your skilled. Flow again is not an issue as in the wild they grow in stagnant swamps or being hit by waves. I've done both and had good results either way. Lighting is whatever you can afford-intense but diffused and full spectrum.

Have you seen my thread? This tank has been taken down but I still have the mangroves.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2300906&page=12

I Pretty sure I have the most mature mangroves out there. Also I have more updates(on nano reef) and will be updating the mangrove guide on there as the pics are correct and I can edit my post. I have the same name there as here.

 

[d2mini]

I have no idea why the pictures are so large-I'll ask a mod to fix that-go to nano reef and go to the macro algae section and the pics are not so big. I cover a lot of this, maybe just missed it since pic are so massive here. Substrate is not that picky-you can use sand(I use reef safe fertilizer pills,api has good ones), silt mud, bonsai soil, potting soil(don't use this one lol). I recommend 3" as a minimum but it can be done in less if your skilled. Flow again is not an issue as in the wild they grow in stagnant swamps or being hit by waves. I've done both and had good results either way. Lighting is whatever you can afford-intense but diffused and full spectrum.

Have you seen my thread? This tank has been taken down but I still have the mangroves.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2300906&page=12

I Pretty sure I have the most mature mangroves out there. Also I have more updates(on nano reef) and will be updating the mangrove guide on there as the pics are correct and I can edit my post. I have the same name there as here.

oh ya, i love that tank! One of my favorite builds. This will probably end up being a mini version of that (hopefully), just plumbed into the rest of my system.

Thanks for the other info. Sounds like they are pretty flexible. I can definitely do 3" of sand. Or more. Whatever is best.
And I figured they can grow under various conditions as I've had some previous success but I just want to make sure that this time i'm making the BEST choices.
Like out of all people I would want to know how you would set up your next mangrove tank based on everything you've learned over the years. But it sounds like there's still more than one way to skin the cat.

I'll look for that thread on nano reef. I'm not familiar with that forum but shouldn't be hard to find.

Oh, and what do you think of this light?
http://www.hpsgrowlightstore.com/system-comp-fluorescent-200w-day.html
I have this now, but I could replace it with a MH if that would be better?

Thanks!

 

[d2mini]

Also I have more updates(on nano reef) and will be updating the mangrove guide on there as the pics are correct and I can edit my post. I have the same name there as here.

That thread on nano-reefs is wayyyy easier to read. Thanks!

 

[Giga]

That link doesn't work, I'm setting up another mangrove tank now-This is for some very small but very compact mangroves I have. I don't like metal halide or hps as they get sooooo hot and while they have good spectrum, you have to make sure the mangrove don't get too close or you cook them. I have used them before with good success but LED's are just so much ez'er and there no worry of heat(to much). Heat and humidity plays a major role in growing trees and especially tropical ones. I just try and do the best to duplicate that(nature) in our boxes of water. Plus it help that I have 13 years on bonsai exp. under my belt :lolspin:

 

[d2mini]

That's weird. Try again maybe?
I posted the link from home and it is working at the office too.
Anyway, its a 200w huge compact fluorescent full spectrum daylight bulb.
I think it's used to grow other "plants" as well. :bum:
Comes in a reflector with a glass shield.
I have that, or I have a gen 1 radion, but I didn't know if I was really liking the radion over it since it doesn't have enough white channels and I really had no idea what spectrum the mangroves would prefer, i.e. what % of each color channel.

 

[d2mini]

I'm thinking about picking up one of these tanks.
What do you guys think?
http://www.picoaquariums.com/pico-naked-series/97-20-x-20-x-10-naked.html


And here's a pic of the light i already have, over my old mangrove setup...

 

[Giga]

Looks good-why not just use that then add like a led bar on each side with violet, neutral white, red, deep red, blue and royal blue. Run at 500ma'ish with optics as to not wash out the white and your golden-least that's what I would do lol

 

[d2mini]

Looks good-why not just use that then add like a led bar on each side with violet, neutral white, red, deep red, blue and royal blue. Run at 500ma'ish with optics as to not wash out the white and your golden-least that's what I would do lol

I could. Although I'm not a DIY'er when it comes to lighting so I would need to look for an off the shelf option or Build My LEDs.
If this is supposedly a "Full Spectrum Daylight" bulb that I have, what would the LEDs do for me?

And that tank is 10" deep.
That should be good, right?

Thanks!