Help me defend our hobby

[BIGG D]

I have been enjoying the salty scene now for about 2 years. What started off as a father and son project has evolved into a true obsession. We just love it! We started with a 75 gallon and are now cycling our 175 bow front. I see no end in sight (unless we run out of money).

Here the thing. With the holidays approaching I know I will have family over to the house and my brother and sister in law are those tree hugger types. Environmental extremist's if you will. They also lead a life they refer to as a "œminimalist". Don't get me wrong. I am environmentally aware myself and commend them for their passion. But, I mean, they don't even own a car. They want their "œcarbon footprint" to be as small as possible. They ride bikes everywhere they can"¦ and rent a car when they need one. Their newborn baby wears only cloth diapers. They have no furniture to speak of in their apartment (save trees). Just pillows and mattresses on the floor. Just the bare essentials. Oh"¦and they named this precious newborn little boy"¦Crow. Yes"¦the childs name"¦is Crow. Good luck with that one kid.

Anyway"¦Are you kind of getting the picture now? To each his own I suppose.

I know they are going to come into my house this Christmas and "œfreak" when they see my reef set up. I have lots of nice rock from the Fiji Islands and lots of nice fishys caught in the wild. Oh"¦and did I mention this guy also is an expert on every subject? (He's one of those too).

I honestly don't know how to defend this hobby to a guy like this.
Mainly because"¦ I am afraid he may be right.

Any advice???

 

[RicksReefs]

ya, tell them to stay home and save yourself the aggravation.

 

[swiftwing7]

Just tell them to make sure they bring their bikes with them. And a tent.

 

[Mathfreak71]

Well, first don't feel like you have to defend it. If you start from a defensive footing your are bound to feel like you lose.

We are all going to have to look at our carbon footprint! But this is not something we can do alone. Culturally we are going to have to switch to non-carbon based fuels. But, that is a much bigger discussion.

Explain how this hobby exposes people to nature in a way that few other things can. When your friends come over they see this beautiful tank and ask questions. You can explain the reef and how the things we are doing are destroying the natural reef. Your tank can truly be a teaching tool that can motivate people to change their lifestyle.

My son (who truly is a genius IQ 180) likes to argue with me about voting. He says that his vote doesn't count. It is irrelevent if he votes. That the most successful people are the ones who convince others to vote in a particular way. I hate to say it but he is most likely correct. So, if you can convince others to lesson their carbon footprint by exposing them to your tank, that is actually more important and will have a greater impact than you saving the energy and not taking animals from nature.

So, recycle, buy recylced products, energy saving appliances, and fuel effecient cars. Then argue that by having this tank and possibly influencing dozens of people with exposure to the tank you are actually doing way more for the environment than if you didn't have it.

 

[BlueCorn]

Holiday Inn.

 

[BIGG D]

ya, tell them to stay home and save yourself the aggravation.

LOL!
I would take greater pleasure in shutting them up...should they decide to bash my beloved hobby.

 

[BIGG D]

Well, first don't feel like you have to defend it. If you start from a defensive footing your are bound to feel like you lose.

We are all going to have to look at our carbon footprint! But this is not something we can do alone. Culturally we are going to have to switch to non-carbon based fuels. But, that is a much bigger discussion.

Explain how this hobby exposes people to nature in a way that few other things can. When your friends come over they see this beautiful tank and ask questions. You can explain the reef and how the things we are doing are destroying the natural reef. Your tank can truly be a teaching tool that can motivate people to change their lifestyle.

My son (who truly is a genius IQ 180) likes to argue with me about voting. He says that his vote doesn't count. It is irrelevent if he votes. That the most successful people are the ones who convince others to vote in a particular way. I hate to say it but he is most likely correct. So, if you can convince others to lesson their carbon footprint by exposing them to your tank, that is actually more important and will have a greater impact than you saving the energy and not taking animals from nature.

So, recycle, buy recylced products, energy saving appliances, and fuel effecient cars. Then argue that by having this tank and possibly influencing dozens of people with exposure to the tank you are actually doing way more for the environment than if you didn't have it.

Yes...it is a teaching tool and can be very educational. I have certainly learned a lot about how the environment through this hobby. But I dont know that that justifies busting rock off the Fiji islands and contributing to the collection of reef fishes all over the world. Maybe I should cage up Bald Eagle in my back yard too. You know...for the education. (Just tryin to come up with an arguement he would pose).

 

[Mathfreak71]

Well, we do cage some bald eagles for educational purposes. You have chosen fish. Anyway at the rate we are losing the reefs, captive reefs such as ours may be the best way to keep evidence of these animals. There is definetly a conservation portion to our hobby. The collection of fish for our hobby is a minor strain on the ecosystem. But it pales in comparison to the damage done by the worlds waste. Understanding our tanks and explaining that to our friends and family can put a face on the issue. There will always be counter arguements but at least you will give him something to chew on! He can't just dismiss our hobby as a complete waste. I have begun recycling more, trying to find ways to save energy. I have even been looking into installing a solar energy system at my home. I have three-quarters of an acre yard that just sits there. We all need to try and do things like that. But our hobby can be an effective ambassador for the animals we care so much about.

 

[bguile]

Why should you have to "defend" your hobby. God gave man domain over ALL the animals and as long as you are caring for and treating those animals with respect they will live long happy lives. Not live on open reefs and get mutilated by raging meat eating sharks! :lol:

 

[slk55r]

heh

heh

I would make it clear that no discussions regarding carbon footprint/environment etc are to be brought up while they are your guests.

If they feel the need to, they can always leave.

 

[zooty]

Point out how many gallons of water are wasted washing their babies cloth diapers. Not to mention the phosphates from the detergent

and tell them you will save electricity as long as they stay in the tent in the backyard that you set up for them

 

[bguile]

Point out how many gallons of water are wasted washing their babies cloth diapers. Not to mention the phosphates from the detergent

Yeah, the same phosphates that would've killed the coral plant life that you saved from the reefs to help preserve.

 

[BIGG D]

Point out how many gallons of water are wasted washing their babies cloth diapers. Not to mention the phosphates from the detergent

Hmm...great point! It only holds up of course if they do actually wash these diapers. I would not doubt that they have come up with some way around this.

 

[returnofsid]

IF you feel the need to defend your hobby, in your own home, you might teach them that our hobby has led to a lot of knowledge that is used in wild reef recovery programs all over the world. In fact, many reefs are being repopulated with coral frags that were "home grown."

I'm with Beerguy...Holiday Inn!!

 

[swiftwing7]

Point out how many gallons of water are wasted washing their babies cloth diapers. Not to mention the phosphates from the detergent

and tell them you will save electricity as long as they stay in the tent in the backyard that you set up for them

That's right put them in a tent!!
Honestly though these people seem to live a very radical lifestyle, and it is radical. Having a discussion with a radical is kinda like playing tennis with a wall, no matter what you do they always hit the ball back. Even if you provided the best information and made a kick butt argument for your case they won't care. They won't change their views and instead of a happy Disney movie ending you'll just be confrontational with them the entire time. So when they start ragging on you just picture how much of a pain it is for them to use cloth diapers and ride bikes everywhere. Then have a nice big smile and say something like, yeah but look how cute that fish is. You can't win so just avoid talking about it. Then buy them a really nice sweater, itchy, organic and made from tree bark.

 

[BIGG D]

IF you feel the need to defend your hobby, in your own home, you might teach them that our hobby has led to a lot of knowledge that is used in wild reef recovery programs all over the world. In fact, many reefs are being repopulated with coral frags that were "home grown."

I'm with Beerguy...Holiday Inn!!

Thats the kind of stuff I am looking for!!!
:beer:

 

[stugray]

Just explain to them that WHEN all the coral reefs die ( due to climate change ), the people who have collected & cared for them will be the salvation if we ever get the climate back to a point that can support the reefs again.

People complain about live caught fish for hobbyists.... Asian cultures EAT THOUSANDS of times more of these fish than we import for our tanks.
Ever seen Dried Cuttle fish hanging on strings in the market?

People complain about the coral reefs being "devastated" by wild collection....... ever seen what fishing DRAG NETS do to the reef? It is THOUSANDS of times worse for the reef.

Ever seen what the Crown Of Thorns starfish is doing to the reefs in Australia?
We SHOULD be collecting like mad right in front of this scourge just to save a few frags from consumption by a "Coral Munching Monster".

IMO - "responsible" collection might actually SAVE the reefs, NOT destroy them.

Stu

 

[BIGG D]

That's right put them in a tent!!
Honestly though these people seem to live a very radical lifestyle, and it is radical. Having a discussion with a radical is kinda like playing tennis with a wall, no matter what you do they always hit the ball back. Even if you provided the best information and made a kick butt argument for your case they won't care. They won't change their views and instead of a happy Disney movie ending you'll just be confrontational with them the entire time. So when they start ragging on you just picture how much of a pain it is for them to use cloth diapers and ride bikes everywhere. Then have a nice big smile and say something like, yeah but look how cute that fish is. You can't win so just avoid talking about it. Then buy them a really nice sweater, itchy, organic and made from tree bark.

LOL!:thumbsup:

Honestly? I look forward to the encounter...as long as I am well prepared.

 

[BIGG D]

Just explain to them that WHEN all the coral reefs die ( due to climate change ), the people who have collected & cared for them will be the salvation if we ever get the climate back to a point that can support the reefs again.

People complain about live caught fish for hobbyists.... Asian cultures EAT THOUSANDS of times more of these fish than we import for our tanks.
Ever seen Dried Cuttle fish hanging on strings in the market?

People complain about the coral reefs being "devastated" by wild collection....... ever seen what fishing DRAG NETS do to the reef? It is THOUSANDS of times worse for the reef.

Ever seen what the Crown Of Thorns starfish is doing to the reefs in Australia?
We SHOULD be collecting like mad right in front of this scourge just to save a few frags from consumption by a "Coral Munching Monster".

IMO - "responsible" collection might actually SAVE the reefs, NOT destroy them.

Stu

Thats what I am talking about!!!

Maybe I should have you guys over. If your not doin anything on Christmas day, let me know. I'll set a plate for ya!

 

[kingfisher62]

Any guest that would come into your home and criticize your life style Is totally out of line.
A gracious guest would just bite their tongue and not even bring it up and just enjoy your company.
Just to keep the peace, I would not allow yourself to get into any heated debates.
When ever they make a comment , just say something like " Yeah, but we love it"
After the tenth or twelth time they will get the hint!

As much as they ***** about it, I bet they wont be able to keep their eyes off of it.