Help me defend our hobby

[Masoch]

I will make sure to put i next to that big plate of rare roast beast!!!

If I may suggest ...

You should take the high road and not drop down to their level of open antagonism.

Further, you could take some steps to melt their brains a wee little bit. Poke around the web and Google +locavore +your city's name -- put together a meal or two of local food. If you're going to serve that roast beast, find a critter that was pastured and /not/ feed lot raised. Vegans, FWIW, frequently succumb to tropical fruits come winter because a diet of cabbage, onions, potatoes, carrots and dry beans, while sustaining, gets a bit bland. And potentially smelly. But that all local meal ...

Many areas have an electricy provider like Bullfrog in Canada that sources electricity from sustainable sources. I'm not sure what the ones in the States are like, but we got stickers and such when we signed up with Bullfrog. A gesture like that is probably not likely to be missed.

Just a thought or two.

 

[velvetelvis]

I agree with Masoch that it's probably best not to rise to the bait (although speaking of bait, if they've added fish to their menu, that gives you some ammunition if he wants to blame you for degrading marine environments). I have a little of the same situation with my sister; she's an ardent environmentalist (though not a fanatical one) and I always feel a little under scrutiny when she visits. But she's polite enough to keep her nagging to a minimum.

And being vegan is no excuse for being a difficult guest, as long as your hosts don't give you a hard time. I've been a vegetarian for almost a decade, and I've never had trouble visiting with other people, and have happily shared the Thanksgiving table with a big ol' turkey in the middle of it. The way I see it, if someone is gracious enough to open their home to me and give me food and shelter, I owe it to them to be a gracious guest in return. That doesn't mean I'm going to eat meat, but it does mean that I'll bring some of my own food, so my host/hostess doesn't have to make special dishes just for me, and I'll share the non-meat foods with the rest of the family. You're not doing your causes--whatever they are--any good by being demanding and judgmental.

Or you could distract them. Listen to his argument without saying anything, and when he runs out of breath, say, "I agree with you. Hey, you wanna get the kids some fresh air? Let's go target-shooting!" He'll forget all about your evil aquarium.

 

[cas]

As stated previously it is your house and you do not need to defend your lifestyle.

If they do start in on you, just explain the joy you feel with sharing this hobby with your children and that it teaches them about chemistry and responsibility. Then turn up the volume on the game and enjoy.

 

[Stuart60611]

Of interest, last night I watched a special on discovery channel which really did not boast well for the hobby's effect on the environment. In fact, the crux of show was that the hobby may have ultimately created one of the greatest threats to our oceans presently. It discussed the release of calupura algae to oceans where it is not native and traced its release to various aquariums. The algae is now consuming large areas along European coastlines and threatening the destruction of certain costal areas in California. Scientists believe that, perhaps, the way in which this particular calapura was collected and raised in artificial conditions and artificial light and reproduced over time in the aquarium has produced a new strain which can grow in conditions not expected and is extremely hard to destroy. In California, they resorted to placing hudge tarps over the ocean floor and pumping in chlorine to kill the calupura and everything else under the tarp. This was deemed a very radical and drastic solution because of how much ocean life was killed, but it was decided to be necessary because the alternative could have resulted in the potential destruction of much of the corals and other ocean life along the entire California coastline.

It is kind of hard to defend our hobby in light of this and other instances in which the hobby has caused so much damage to the environment, such as the release of lionfish from aquariums into non native ocean habitats which are growing to out of control numbers because they have no natural predators in the areas in which they were released.

I love the hobby, but whatever good it has contributed to the environment, such advancements in captive breeding, etc, is unfortunately greatly outweighed by the severe problems and distruction it has caused.

 

[bguile]

It is kind of hard to defend our hobby in light of this and other instances in which the hobby has caused so much damage to the environment, such as the release of lionfish from aquariums into non native ocean habitats which are growing to out of control numbers because they have no natural predators in the areas in which they were released.

I love the hobby, but whatever good it has contributed to the environment, such advancements in captive breeding, etc, is unfortunately greatly outweighed by the severe problems and distruction it has caused.

I don't think your argument points the finger at the hobby as much as it does the hobbyist. Captive breeding anything then releasing it back into the wild isnt a responsible practice in keeping any "pet" or animal. (birds, snakes, mice, etc)

First off, you're expecting a domesticated animal (for the most part) to immediately adapt to a wild environment to survive and secondly in probbaly a different part of the world that it was "designed" to live in. That unfortunately has been done in many different areas of animal keeping. Hell, some people even neglect and drop their own kids off somewhere once the novelty wears off!! So it's not the hobby that created the problem, but the person that thought it would be cool to keep a shark in a 30g then dumped it in the nearest lake b/c he didn't swim in the 2" of space he had left. I think if we all bring it back to personal responsibility we could enjoy the hobby and at the same time respect the environment to allow it to flourish.

 

[Stuart60611]

Bguile:

Unfortunately, it is not always the hobbiest's fault. In the special, one of the aquariums that they traced the release of calapura was an individual who did a water change out of his tank and the changed water went through the municipal drain system which stupidly drained, in part, into the ocean and released the algae into the ocean. The hobbiest did nothing irresponsible, but as chance would have it, the algae made its way into the ocean through the septic system. Also, it has been opined by some that certain aquariums near costal areas where hurricane flooding occurred may have caused some lionfish to be released to the ocean during flooding incidents.

As a correction, the show was on the Science and not the Discovery Channel. I believe it re-airs this evening.

 

[bguile]

Interesting.

Maybe I'll DVR it and check it out. That's unfortunate that chance would happen that way, but what are we to do? We can't just not use modern things and hide EVERYTHING away just because of the off chance that a sewer pipe breaks or a hurricane might wash every coastal house into the ocean.

 

[Stuart60611]

Well, I certainly am not going to quit the hobby over it for the simple selfish reason that I enjoy it too much. However, I do not think it is a bad idea for all us very involved in the hobby to take a step back and look at things objectively so as to at least acknowledge on an intellectually honest level that our love of bringing a small piece of the ocean into our homes is in fact seriously threatening the ocean itself. I do not believe this is necessarily an exageration because after watching the special amd seeing the level of devastation over vast areas that has occurred from this algae it really is an issue that could threaten the ocean's eccosystem. .

 

[Godzillarex]

I have seen that special and I do believe that it was a Public Aquarium not a hobbyist that released the caulpera. The experiment in california was a way to determine the most effective way to kill it. It was by no means something that could be put into practice on a large scale. It is heartbreaking with what has happened to large areas of the european coastline and there are sevel measures underway to educate hobbyists in the states to not release this algae into the wild. Research is also underway to find a natural means to counteract the algae. I am pretty clear headed when it comes to my hobby and my impact on the environment. But we must remember that invasive species are by definition very difficult to get rid of and cause chaos to the environment. Just ask Guam about the brown tree snake. Should we stop flying there? Is it the airline's fault cause they didnt know the snakes were sneaking on the wheels? I believe that the responsible reefer would stay clear of bad practices and collection measures. But to point a finger at one group when human's as a species cause destruction in just the search for food, isn't fair. The ocean's are in trouble but it isn't just one thing that is doing it, it is many things. For example, the development of plastics and their wide use to help the busy housewife. After world war II plastics were marketed just that way to americans. Little did they know that it would result in a great garbage patch in the pacific ocean. One that would starve many species in the area. I don't see the whole scale banning of the use of plastics happening anytime soon. The people that I know in this hobby are among the most responsible I know of. Sure there are issues with any hobby but I have faith that we are and can be environmentally mindful.

 

[Stuart60611]

GodzillaRex:

I agree with much of what you have stated. However, if I remember correctly, yes a public aquarium was believed to release the algae into the ocean, but so was also a hobbiest aquarium through the septic system, and special spent some time explaining how this happened in this particular instance and showed the pipe going into the ocean where it was supposed to have happened. As far as the tarp and chlorine being used in California to kill the algae, I did not know that was just a test project because the way they made it sound in the special was that it was being widely used in California and it was a difficult decission to make because of killing so much life, but it was impratical to employ in Europe because the infestation was much larger there.

 

[Godzillarex]

MMMMM now that you mention I think you are right on that one about the hobbyists. Will have to watch it again. I havent seen that one in along time. Actually wanted to get that on tape to show my students. But as far as an organism goes caulpera is pretty interesting. It is basically one large cell and has only one natural predator, a nudibranch. Did some work on it myself and it is surprising how small a piece you need to grow into a full plant.

 

[thumbsy]

I totally agree with GreenBean. Trying to justify this hobby as green is ridiculous. To which I'll add, most of the time when someone sees a really nice reef tank they don't think 'i have to save the coral reefs', they think 'I have to run out to the pet shop and buy a tank'. So we do even more harm by 'educating' people.

You can't win an argument with an ideologue, the best you can do is ride the slippery slope argument all the way down the hill and see exactly where they jump off. Then make the argument all about them, how could they do more. For example, if they really cared about the environment they wouldn't have had children. Obviously don't do that in front of their kid, he's probably going to have enough baggage as it is.

 

[aquaph8]

Just take a fish out fry it in a pan and eat it for dinner. Tell them your raising your own fish to eat so that you dont have to drive to the store to shop. That way you save natural resources, pollute less and its just like growing your very own garden in your back yard.

If this is too harsh just explain the ammount of captive breeding and trading of corals that goes on, and how far the hobby has come to being more environmental consious.

If none of this works just run over their bikes with your car. Then say ha ha ha hippies!!!

 

[adtravels]

As greenbean stated its a no win situation.

 

[Seventy]

They might be more offended by the wood in the stand than the captive fish.

If you already drive a car and own furniture then you really shouldn't feel like you have to justify the aquarium.

A debate is definately a no-win situation.

 

[OwenInAZ]

If it were me, I wouldn't stoop to the level of open antagonism. Chances are, they won't bring it up so as to be good guests. If they do, you can *politely* explain how you and your kids enjoy it as a hobby, how it teaches about the ocean, etc. I also like the idea of getting ahold of some local foods, stuff you can trace from local producers. It's not too difficult to make good tasting food out of that stuff. He's your brother, so you'll have to deal with his quirks for a long time. Best to keep up a good relationship. He probably feels the same way about you .

On the flip side, if he refuses to leave you alone about your lifestyle, you are well within your rights to ask him to leave. Just don't go into it assuming that's going to happen.

 

[Texxxx]

NO ONE should have to defend there way of living in there on home.

 

[Untamed12]

Until we stop the world population growth it is just a matter of time before it gets stopped for us. At that point, life is going to be very unpleasant.

 

[Pacific Reefs]

First good luck with the family!

I just wanted to note that over the years technology has become more efficient and evergy saving in this hobby. I use larger reflectors that cover a greater area of the tank thus calling for less MH bulbs being run. My Tunze powerheads run at less watts than my previous powerheads. My Dart return pump also uses less watts than the multiple pumps I used to have. And my cone skimmer is more efficient and uses a smaller pump than my previous skimmer. And becuase of all this there is less heat and I don't have to run a chiller. But I doubt they want to hear that!

 

[BIGG D]

Update

Update

Well... it was much ado about nothing. Any animosity they had toward our beloved hobby was kept to themselves. They were actually VERY impressed with the whole set up and had a lot of questions about the specific species of fish and corals. HE is an artist...and even wants to come back and do some drawings.

He was actually inspired!!!


Whew!!!