Help me understand phytoplankton nutritional value better (exponential, refrigerated)

[alizarin]

Help me understand phytoplankton nutritional value better (exponential, refrigerated, etc)

Regarding Nannochloropsis, Tetraselmis, and Isochrysis...

The short version:
1) How much less nutritional value is there to exponential vs post-exponential growth phytoplankton?
2) How much less nutritional value is there to exponential vs refrigerated phytoplankton? I read this thing DT's put out http://www.coralsands.de/media/products/0778501001191007310.pdf that makes it seem as if refrigerated is of zero value and it makes me wonder how the species I'm interested perform =(

The long version:
The reason I ask is I want to grow all 3 species of phyto to feed 2 40 gallon tanks - a mixed reef and a native species seagrass tank. I want to feed the corals and I want as much epithetic life (stuff that latches onto the wild sea grasses I collect) to survive as possible and I gather diversity of prey size for filter feeders is the best way to do this. The problem is - growing 3 bottles of phyto at a time is going to be way too much. So, I was wondering if I could store several bottles in the refrigerator and start up new cultures with the refrigerated as I run out to keep my supply topped off. I don't want to throw away bottles of the stuff endlessly trying to keep 3 exponential cultures. Then when I read the DT's article I wonder if refrigerated Nannochloropsis, Tetraselmis, and Isochrysis are even viable at all. I have noticed that my Euphylia (hammer/frogspawn) don't look nearly as fat and happy with refrigerated monoculture Nannochloropsis as with DT's).

Any insight appreciated =)

 

[TheH]

By refrigerated, do you mean frozen or simply cooled? When you say that DT's produces fatter & happier euphylia as compared to refrigerated Nannochloropsis, you are talking about DT's that has been stored at cool temperatures right (~4C)?

Or are you keeping DT's Phytoplankton at room temperature in a culture?

 

[alizarin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14004653#post14004653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TheH
By refrigerated, do you mean frozen or simply cooled? When you say that DT's produces fatter & happier euphylia as compared to refrigerated Nannochloropsis, you are talking about DT's that has been stored at cool temperatures right (~4C)?

Or are you keeping DT's Phytoplankton at room temperature in a culture?

* Cooled - just in the refrigerator, not frozen.
*By DT's I mean using just a bottle of refrigerated DT's as it's intended. I tried culturing DT's as well but didn't see the same positive results.

 

[Ninong]

DT's phytoplankton has to be kept refrigerated at all times (32-39 degrees F), so I doubt that they would say that refrigerated phyto has zero value. That's one of the problems with DT's -- if your LFS doesn't carry it, you have to pay for expensive overnight shipping with dry ice. And, even if your LFS does keep it, you have to hope that it was properly handled at all times from the moment of refrigerated shipment from DT's.

One other point about DT's. They say to shake the bottles at least once a week. In my experience, it is best to store them on their sides like bottles of wine and rotate them daily. Standing them up and shaking them gently only once or twice a week isn't enough.

I don't know what you mean whey you say you tried to culture DT's??? DT's phytoplankton can't be cultured from their product because it's a blend of more than one species in a suspension. You have to use a live starter culture of one species if you want to start your own live phytoplankton cultures.

If you are up to the work of culturing your own phytoplankton, then all the more power to you. In my opinion, that would be the best possible product. DT's would be a close second. I'm not a fan of freeze dried, spray dried, cryopaste, or any of those various so-called phytoplankton products.

BTW, the study that Dennis Tagrin posted on his website is not the only study that concludes that DT's is superior to the dried stuff or the cryopaste stuff. There have been studies and articles written on this topic going back at least to 2000. Rob Toonen has written at least two or three such articles.

 

[TheH]

That's what I am confused about because it is an interesting observation. Just to be clear, you are saying that in your experience refrigerated DT's Phytoplankton is better received by your corals than refrigerated Nannochloropsis that you have cultured yourself?

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14009511#post14009511 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TheH
That's what I am confused about because it is an interesting observation. Just to be clear, you are saying that in your experience refrigerated DT's Phytoplankton is better received by your corals than refrigerated Nannochloropsis that you have cultured yourself?

Very, very few, if any, corals eat phytoplankton. They eat zooplankton. The zooplankton eat the phytoplankton. So do copepods. Clams and other filter feeders eat phytoplankton if it is of the appropriate size and density.

DT's is a concentrated suspension of three different species of phyto. It has to be refrigerated to stay fresh. The temperature recommended by Dennis is 32-39 deg F.

If you culture phyto yourself from a starter culture, it is best that it not be refrigerated. It should be kept as a constant culture at room temperature. You would have to discuss this topic with one of the university labs that are experienced at maintaining phytoplankton cultures, or perhaps a hobbyist with experience doing this. I believe Flame Angel did this a few years back. I'm not sure if she kept it up or not.

My only experience is with DT's. At first I ordered too much -- two 32 oz bottles for a 120-gal tank. I was feeding one or two Tbsps per day. It took me a good three months to use up the first bottle and I guess I didn't shake the other bottle often enough because it was bad when I opened it (settled at the bottom). The first bottle remained fresh the entire time. I think it was my fault that the second bottle went bad. A couple LFS near me carry it but it's almost never fresh. You have to check the date on the bottle.

 

[DTagrin]

I am the owner of DT’s Plankton Farm.
First I would like to make clear what I am trying to get across about refrigerated phytoplankton. Only a very few species survive refrigerated storage and retain their nutritional value. The species most commonly used in commercial aquaculture are only effective when used from actively growing cultures.

If you are interested in real research, I suggest reading the following study. This was published in the peer-review research journal Zoo Biology. This link takes you to the article on the Marine Animal Disease laboratory where the study was done.
http://somas.stonybrook.edu/~MADL/pubspdf/Emma-clamgrowth.pdf

If you are interested in the qualifications of the researchers you can check them out from this link;
http://somas.stonybrook.edu/~MADL/faculty.html

As far as shaking it up, please follow the directions on the label. Do not store the bottles on their side and rotate them. We specifically state to store them upright and shake them up until all the phytoplankton is off the bottom at least once a week. Some of the phytoplankton will settle and stick to the bottle right away and if you rotate them without shaking it up, there will be phytoplankton stuck to the bottle and out of the water. Not good!

Thank you,
Dennis Tagrin
DT’s Plankton Farm

 

[Ncastro1981]

Now thats just plain good old information.

 

[mfin77]

does DT's phytoplankton live in the fishtank after you put it in? How long does it survive in our tanks for?
Mike

 

[DTagrin]

The phytoplankton will stay alive until it is eaten. As far as it blooming in the aquarium, there are not enough nutrients for much of a phytoplankton bloom in most reef aquariums but there will be some growth. The exception to this is that phytoplankton cells, particularly the Chlorella will get stuck in the biofilm on the glass and grow. When you wipe the glass you put another feeding of phytoplankton into the water.