I am getting extremly upset almost at the point of selling everything. I am now down a couple thousand dollars in ricordea takink out some very nice colony's. I dont know what else to do? I have dosed all that I can everything else I have seems to be doing fine now. But why would I want to spend the money to stock my again if this could happen again? I only have ricordea in my tank. We need to know what creates the problem in the first place.
Help My Ricordea Are Dying!!!!!!
- Thread starter phathead
- Start date
Azurel
In Memoriam
Have you seen any of these things around the base of the polyps during the day?
I would find them hiding from the light under the open pedle of the polyp hanging tight against the foot. If you dip and turkey baste them you should see little black things that look like large particles of sand sitting on the bottom of your dish.....You can also try saltwater from the tank to turkey baste them this way if there are any of these things you can see them move. The Ro/Di water will kill them almost instantly so you won't see any movement.....
I understand where you at, I was there myself luckly my wife brought me back to my senses.......Move the ones that are healthy and what ones you deem rare and keep them away from the ones that have, are or look to be showing signs.....I am not sure if there is a fish that could help as I had a 6 line during that time and he didn't seem to help out any.....KEEP up the FIGHT!
I would find them hiding from the light under the open pedle of the polyp hanging tight against the foot. If you dip and turkey baste them you should see little black things that look like large particles of sand sitting on the bottom of your dish.....You can also try saltwater from the tank to turkey baste them this way if there are any of these things you can see them move. The Ro/Di water will kill them almost instantly so you won't see any movement.....
I understand where you at, I was there myself luckly my wife brought me back to my senses.......Move the ones that are healthy and what ones you deem rare and keep them away from the ones that have, are or look to be showing signs.....I am not sure if there is a fish that could help as I had a 6 line during that time and he didn't seem to help out any.....KEEP up the FIGHT!
JMCAquarium
They are among us!!
start a second basic tank and move the healthy ones and or the one that have little to no rock into the the basic tank perhaps if you take the hidding places away the bugs will have a harder time destroying you colonies.
You could always send them to me ...lol although if your having the issues your having they'll prob be dead by the time they get here.
Phat man what is you name ??
You could always send them to me ...lol although if your having the issues your having they'll prob be dead by the time they get here.
Phat man what is you name ??
Helfrichs Chic
New member
I agree JMC thats a GREAT IDEA!!! I have a friend who is working on his PHD at ASU, someone send me a dying ric, or one that has these "BUGS" and I will get some slides and photos up. JMC Aquatouch would be a good resource to take a sample to as well... Whoever has these dying rics PM me and I will send you pay pal for the ric and the shipping. I will not be returing the ric, you will be surrendering it for an ID on these "BUGS."
I NEED to figure this out. I am also gonna email Fenner, and my ric guys, and see if they have ever heard of this, or know more specifically what it is.
I NEED to figure this out. I am also gonna email Fenner, and my ric guys, and see if they have ever heard of this, or know more specifically what it is.
JMCAquarium
They are among us!!
Helfrichs I fear once you realize the ric is dieing it will be mush by the time it reachs us. But, maybe they can still find this "bug" on it even if mush.
Phathead send her one of yours if you can I can't imagine what would happen to my rics or me for that matter if this illness hit my tank I'd prob stop buying rics for a long while.
Phathead send her one of yours if you can I can't imagine what would happen to my rics or me for that matter if this illness hit my tank I'd prob stop buying rics for a long while.
Nano Chris
Active member
OMG love your ric collection!<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13123999#post13123999 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Helfrich’s Chic
madadi
ReefOG
Helfrich’s Chic
when i seen your ric pictures you lost it was like seeing a picture of a smashed ferrari. it hurt. i cant imagine loosing my rics. zooas and sps have their pests and now rics too!!!! this is horrible. what is frustrating is that some of this stuff is starting to happen to rics that were added months and months ago. i wonder if freshwater dipping everything is a good preventative from introducing these things to the display tank. if they are bugs, and crustacean like, i bet interceptor will work. but protozoans, i can only see freshwater dip to be any good because the hypo salinity is probably killing them instantly. i guess its time to give all new rics a good freshwater dip, aqua cultured or not, everything is going trough the QT tank now.
when i seen your ric pictures you lost it was like seeing a picture of a smashed ferrari. it hurt. i cant imagine loosing my rics. zooas and sps have their pests and now rics too!!!! this is horrible. what is frustrating is that some of this stuff is starting to happen to rics that were added months and months ago. i wonder if freshwater dipping everything is a good preventative from introducing these things to the display tank. if they are bugs, and crustacean like, i bet interceptor will work. but protozoans, i can only see freshwater dip to be any good because the hypo salinity is probably killing them instantly. i guess its time to give all new rics a good freshwater dip, aqua cultured or not, everything is going trough the QT tank now.
Helfrichs Chic
New member
madadi: Ferrari: Thats EXACTLY how I feel lol...
Great, looks like phathead and I are going to try to figure this out. He should be sending a ric or 2 thats showing signs and I have talked with my buddy as ASU and we are a go. He also has a lab member who can take pictures of the slides under the scope. HOPEFULLY we will get this figured out. At first I was really sceptical of the "bug" but I started thinking the fact that several people have had the EXACT same problem, and with the way they start to die... holes and mouths falling out, I just cant see it being enviromental. I am beyond anal about testing my water, I test EVERYTHING....
Trites
Trates
Amm
PH
Alk
CA
Phos
Mag
Iodine
Oxygen
Yea, I know a little test happy but IMO thats what makes my tank run smoothly. Plus I dont run a skimmer or filter lol.
Anyways I HOPE it is just a bug honestly and not some bacterial infection. I have never FW dipped any rics. Maybe thats the way to go from now on? The WORST thing is that after the rics died in my tank regardless of WCs because I run a "naked" tank I lost all my SPS and some of my fav Zoa/Palys
(
Stay tuned......
Great, looks like phathead and I are going to try to figure this out. He should be sending a ric or 2 thats showing signs and I have talked with my buddy as ASU and we are a go. He also has a lab member who can take pictures of the slides under the scope. HOPEFULLY we will get this figured out. At first I was really sceptical of the "bug" but I started thinking the fact that several people have had the EXACT same problem, and with the way they start to die... holes and mouths falling out, I just cant see it being enviromental. I am beyond anal about testing my water, I test EVERYTHING....
Trites
Trates
Amm
PH
Alk
CA
Phos
Mag
Iodine
Oxygen
Yea, I know a little test happy but IMO thats what makes my tank run smoothly. Plus I dont run a skimmer or filter lol.
Anyways I HOPE it is just a bug honestly and not some bacterial infection. I have never FW dipped any rics. Maybe thats the way to go from now on? The WORST thing is that after the rics died in my tank regardless of WCs because I run a "naked" tank I lost all my SPS and some of my fav Zoa/Palys
(Stay tuned......
Here is a couple more pics for everyone they are not very good but good pictures is not exactly on the top of my list right now. So my ric tank is now no more. I have a toadstool and some frogspawn that is it and I put these in there yesterday so my tank had at least some coral in it. Luckly I have 2 other tanks with alot of corals in them but I prefer the ricordeas for my show tank. I managed to save about 50 and they are now in my sump of the show tank and doing good. I am still alittle skeptical on the bug thing for I have seen exactly what every one is describing but Im not sure they are really alive or just small enough that the slightest water movement makes them seem alive. I did dip all the rics that are now in the sump but only one time. I am still looking into my peppermint or cleaner shrimp being the attacker. Maybe the little bugs are simply scraps from the shrimp taking bights? I am moving one ricordea into my show tank today. I have a over the top security system on my home so I simply moved one of the cameras to the front of the tank right on the ricordea if they are doing any damage Ill catch it on camera. Hey who knows maybe it will be attacked by bugs over a few days and I can do a time lapse video of a dying ricordea I guess that would be kinda cool LOL.
Azurel
In Memoriam
That sucks Phathead, I know how you feel nothing like tearing your heart out while watching your prized corals melt away and feel like there is nothing you can do.......I have had no issues since my last problem, I hope it turns out that way for you.....I wish I would have taken pictures when I was dealing with the samething, but I wasn't thinking about pics at the time......
JMCAquarium
They are among us!!
I haven't spoken with Helfrichs since our last meeting did you ever send her any rics ???
spanishmack
New member
phathead,
i notice alot of cyano in your pics, is that becoming a problem from the rics demise or is there a water quality issue?
i notice alot of cyano in your pics, is that becoming a problem from the rics demise or is there a water quality issue?
stuart0413
In Memoriam
phathead...did you ever figure out the problem with your florida rics? [violation] i am inclined to believe that it is an infection. once one polyp starts dying, the ooze will spread to others nearby which causes a chain reaction. but the bug theory is worth looking into. in my farming tank, i started some yumas and a colony died. a few days later, about a dozen florida rics in the same area slimed and melted away. no problems since then. i never do any dips but may start to if any more incidents occur.
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Last edited by a moderator:
Helfrichs Chic
New member
Sorry I have been crazy busy. Phathead, did you still want to send me one? LMK if so I will PM you my addy. Seing the new pictures it has to be the same as what happened to me. I am still confused since I have friends who had rics from the same batches and they are fine. At a loss here.
Helfrichs Chic
New member
OK!!! A sample is at a lab of a GREAT local LFS Aquatouch. If anyone would know they would. He has a bottle of "bugs" that were siphoned out from Fishman04s tank. He has the same problem as the rest of us.
AT does have the scope with the camera so once I get any pictures back I will be sure to post them. He did tell me that he will look to see if these bugs even have the mouth-parts to tear flesh and will look on the blue mushroom that was sent in the vial as well to look for any bite-marks. If he finds no evidence that the bugs (both black and white types) are predators and instead just opportunistic, he will need an infected ric. He said that he could do some stained slices to see if it is in fact bacterial or fungal.
I told him about how fast they "melt" and that no way it would make it in shipping so he said to use a solution of 40% vodka in water and that would stop the decomposition. News to me lol.
SO if the bugs turn out to be nothing hopefully someone has a ric thats in process that they can send.
Thanks everyone I am SO determined to figure this out, I miss my rics and want to get some more!
AT does have the scope with the camera so once I get any pictures back I will be sure to post them. He did tell me that he will look to see if these bugs even have the mouth-parts to tear flesh and will look on the blue mushroom that was sent in the vial as well to look for any bite-marks. If he finds no evidence that the bugs (both black and white types) are predators and instead just opportunistic, he will need an infected ric. He said that he could do some stained slices to see if it is in fact bacterial or fungal.
I told him about how fast they "melt" and that no way it would make it in shipping so he said to use a solution of 40% vodka in water and that would stop the decomposition. News to me lol.
SO if the bugs turn out to be nothing hopefully someone has a ric thats in process that they can send.
Thanks everyone I am SO determined to figure this out, I miss my rics and want to get some more!
Last edited:
Helfrichs Chic
New member
WOW got the results back today!!!! Good and bad news! Looks like the "BUGS" are not the culprit, not having the mouthparts to tear flesh.... Or at least the bugs I got were not. Here are the findings and pictures.
Hello Adrian,
Following our discussion on your issues with Ricordea species corals I analyzed the sediment sample you gave me, which contained one Discosoma species mushroom coral. Below is a brief synopsis of what I found.
There were numerous unidentified "black bugs" in the sample. Microscopic examination of these revealed they contained no visible appendages. Also, it took me four days after getting the sample to have the time to look at it so I suspect these were now dead. There were only a few ciliates in the sample and these were still alive. The "black bugs" were about 0.5 mm long (fig. 1. scale bar = 0.5 mm) and in the image you can see one on the left and a sand grain on the right for reference. These are just visible to the naked eye. At 100x the sample you gave me contained members of the crustacean subclass Ostracoda (Ostracods), see figure 2 and protozoan, see figure 3. The ostracods were very prevalent, 30 to every 1 protozoan. None of the organisms I found were directly attached to the Discosoma sp. you had included with the sample. I can only speculate that possibly the ostracods in the sample may be larval or juvenile specimens of the "black bugs" given at how both were so numerous. But as I mentioned above there were no other details in the black bug specimens except for the dark colored shell. It is also worth noting that the black "shell" had a slight neutral buoyancy which made it distinct from the rest of the sediment in the sample.
So in short there was nothing in the sample to suggest that these organisms are associated with the Ricordea syndrome you observed. The black bugs could be opportunistic or just part of the aquarium population. It can be difficult to separate naturally occurring flora and fauna populations in the aquarium from those that are introduced, predatory or detrimental. Perhaps the next step is to take a closer look at some Ricordea specimens and try to determine if there is a specific organism that can be attributed as the causal agent.
As we discussed, I would suggest a systematic approach to diagnosing this problem. Collect a sample of a "healthy" Ricordea and fix it in 40% (minimum) clear ethanol (Rum, Vodka, etc...), next fix another sample showing the signs of deterioration you described. This would allow for a microscopic comparison of tissue from the two samples. It would also be beneficial to remove a small piece, about 1 mm of tissue from the Ricordea prior to fixation for bacterial culture. But these fresh samples would have to be sent to us quickly for them to be useful.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Michael P. Janes
President & Senior Aquarist
AquaTouch
12040 North 32nd Street
Phoenix, Arizona 85028
USA
Hello Adrian,
Following our discussion on your issues with Ricordea species corals I analyzed the sediment sample you gave me, which contained one Discosoma species mushroom coral. Below is a brief synopsis of what I found.
There were numerous unidentified "black bugs" in the sample. Microscopic examination of these revealed they contained no visible appendages. Also, it took me four days after getting the sample to have the time to look at it so I suspect these were now dead. There were only a few ciliates in the sample and these were still alive. The "black bugs" were about 0.5 mm long (fig. 1. scale bar = 0.5 mm) and in the image you can see one on the left and a sand grain on the right for reference. These are just visible to the naked eye. At 100x the sample you gave me contained members of the crustacean subclass Ostracoda (Ostracods), see figure 2 and protozoan, see figure 3. The ostracods were very prevalent, 30 to every 1 protozoan. None of the organisms I found were directly attached to the Discosoma sp. you had included with the sample. I can only speculate that possibly the ostracods in the sample may be larval or juvenile specimens of the "black bugs" given at how both were so numerous. But as I mentioned above there were no other details in the black bug specimens except for the dark colored shell. It is also worth noting that the black "shell" had a slight neutral buoyancy which made it distinct from the rest of the sediment in the sample.
So in short there was nothing in the sample to suggest that these organisms are associated with the Ricordea syndrome you observed. The black bugs could be opportunistic or just part of the aquarium population. It can be difficult to separate naturally occurring flora and fauna populations in the aquarium from those that are introduced, predatory or detrimental. Perhaps the next step is to take a closer look at some Ricordea specimens and try to determine if there is a specific organism that can be attributed as the causal agent.
As we discussed, I would suggest a systematic approach to diagnosing this problem. Collect a sample of a "healthy" Ricordea and fix it in 40% (minimum) clear ethanol (Rum, Vodka, etc...), next fix another sample showing the signs of deterioration you described. This would allow for a microscopic comparison of tissue from the two samples. It would also be beneficial to remove a small piece, about 1 mm of tissue from the Ricordea prior to fixation for bacterial culture. But these fresh samples would have to be sent to us quickly for them to be useful.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Michael P. Janes
President & Senior Aquarist
AquaTouch
12040 North 32nd Street
Phoenix, Arizona 85028
USA
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