Help! Need Cleanup Crew, $200 limit, New 180gal (LOTS of PICS)

[Brent Thomann]

First, your time is greatly appreciated and needed please!! Sorry for the long post, took me forever to put everything together.

Can someone please help me hopefully spend $200 or less on a really good cleanup crew. Saltwater is fairly new to me and I don't know anyone that owns a saltwater tank so I'm going to rely on all you good folks!

I was looking for a detailed shopping list from either http://reeftopia.com or http://KeysCritters.com (I was told they'd be the best to order from)

person preferences-
I was also hoping I'd get some stuff that would be interesting and cool to look at, (some shrimps look cool I think). Also, I don't really like the look of tanks that have a million snails all over so what ever you think will get me by if possible. Oh, my son likes crabs if they'd be safe?

Tank-
180 gal 40 gal sump, 220 lbs live rock and 2" live sand bed.
Looking to do mixed reef/fish (mostly reef probably). Tank has had water in if for about 3 weeks now. Cycled in just 2 to 3 days from the 220 lbs of live rock I added that was soaking in my basement for 4 months while I built the stand/canopy/setup. I already have 3 Blue Chromis, 2 Clowns (perks) in the tank. A week ago everything in the tank started to turn orangish and algae is starting to grow everywhere. Couple links/photos of stuff growing already in the tank - PIC1, PIC2, PIC3, PIC4

Here's a couple photos, the last one was taken today along with the ones above. (still setting things up, internal waterflow, refuge, background, etc.)

 

[MonkeeFish]

having a mini circle maybe?

 

[Brent Thomann]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6684343#post6684343 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MonkeeFish
having a mini circle maybe?

day 1: ammonia 10, nitrite 0, nitrate 0
day 2: ammonia 5, nitrite 2.5, nitrate 0
day 3: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10
day 4: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10
day 5: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10
on, on.. up to 2 days ago and now nitrates 0

 

[supernareg]

if u do a search or ask around, there is a website that sells red leg or blue leg hermits like 50 bux for a hundred of em (thats more than enough for you) and snails for teh same price. so for about 100-150 u'll have teh BEST clean up crew. also, spend about 40 bux for 2 cleaner shrimp (get male n female)

 

[mzeinstr]

on ebay there is a guy called arronsales, he sells snails. i picked up 100 nassarius snails for less than 10Ã"šÃ‚¢ each, this for a 70 gallon, so you may want to double that. these will keep the top of your sand stirred up and clean (if i were you i would add more sand as it looks like your sandbed is not very deep, i would make it 3 to 4" deep).
also you might want to try and find a sea cucumber, ugly but a really good detrius eater, i have two serpent stars that also pick up uneaten food. the turbo snails are great algea eaters as are emerald crabs (the crabs you won't see too often). as far as the blue leg hermits, i would maybe get 10 at the most, as they will kill your snails for their shells, but they are fun to watch.
so, in my opinion, i would take 1/2 of that $200 and get some more sand, then spend the other $100 on the cleaning crew.

PM me if you need more help, i just went through this 1 year ago and have finally gotten where i have no algea, no cyano and the surface of my sand is clean.

marti

 

[Fred_J]

Crabs except for small hermits and porcelain crabs are not reef safe. They may go months before you catch them eating a coral or trying to catch small fish, but they eventually will. They are very opportunistic, they will eat anything they can catch or sneak up on.
Mexican turbosnails get big but it only takes a small number of them to keep the algae off the glass and rocks. I'll let someone else give you a complete list of critters.

Fred

 

[a4twenty]

i would hold back from ordering a 100 of these and a 100 of those. there is no point dumping hundreds of critters in and half of them starve to death 2 weeks later. start a little smaller like a half dozen or so each, and diversity is the key.

i know you said you don't like alot of snails, but in a tank that big you'd hardly notice a few dozen. for algae clean up on glass and rock i like mexican turbo's and banded trochus. for detritus and sand cleanup i like nassarius ( you'll like them too as they dissapear into the sand, until feeding time ) i also keep margarita, astraea and cerith.

i'd stay away from the cucumber for now as it doesn't look like there is enough for him to eat. ( and some become toxic when stressed or die )

shrimp are great cleaners and some have cool personalities. but be careful because some are solitarary, or work as mated pairs. i have a scarlet skunk who loves to try a clean my hand everytime it goes in the tank. i have also kept peppermint's, but they allways end up taking the waterslide to the sump.

i'm with your son crabs are cool. the big problem is that there home doesn't grow with them. if there is enough to eat they won't likely bother your snail's unless there looking for a new home. ( some are satan spawn ) i leave extra empty shells of different sizes in a corner and when they want a new home they just pick one and go. i like the dwarf blue legs because they are omnivores and they stay small

 

[techigirl78]

Go with reeftopia and get a mixture of different snails and a cucumber or two. For some interest, you could get some peppermint shrimp, some porcelain crabs, and possibly a serpent star or two. The porcelain crabs are awesome and don't mess with anything.

 

[sequential]

I get sunlight all day long in my tank room, including direct sunlight from about noon until sunset. The anemone love it, but the tank required, until recently, extra care to keep algae populations in control. Then I purchased six mexican turbos, a day or two before I would have normally done a water change. When they snails were introduced, there was a healthy layer of brown forming on the substrate, glass, and live rock. It was noticable, but still small.

Enter the heros of the story: mexican turbos, six in total, in my 38g. After some heavy cuddling with each other, the little buggers went to work. In a couple of hours, the mexicans had cleared up most of the brown stuff. The next morning, the tank glistened with vibrant colors. The turbos were sound asleep in piles of their own feces, but when they woke up, they went right back to work.

They are no match for direct sunlight, so your tank won't be algae free, but the snails will make quick work of the algae when the sun drops.

I added some small red and blue legged hermits to get into the places the snails can't reach because of their size, as well as some smaller snails. This all happened a week ago and I have not needed to do a water change, though one was immenent when I purchased the new snails.

A word to the wise about mexican turbos - they'll clean anything dirty, anything. The previous snail, an unknown, small turbo that had previously been covered in algae, was licked clean by the mexicans in no time. Then a pair of them moved on to opposite sides of my electric sea scallop, sitting on him for over a day while he struggled to open, close, and break free. The electric scallop has since buried himself, something I've never seen him do, and I fear he's not doing well. He wasn't blinking the last time he was open or as full.

 

[lfjewett]

Ok so the comments about overstocking snails are the best in this thread! Below are what I recommend you start with.

2 shrimp of your choice ( I like the skunk cleaner shimp )
2 Serpant Stars ( VERY fun to watch eat my kids love um )
8 Nassarius Vibex Snails.
4 Mexican Turbos ( Great hair algea eaters )
2 Fighting conch ( not queen! )
14 Cerith Snails
8 Nerite
5 Margarita Snails
2-6 Maroon Hermits. These guys get bigger than the blues and are great herbervores ( though will scavange like any crab. ) They are also easy to find and fun to watch. Place a 1/2 dozen empty shells ( get ones you like ) for them to move into.

To be honest this would be a complete clean up crew for your tank after it's past the inital algea blooms. It's also got lots of diversity. You might need to tune the cerith snails + or - a few but not more than 8 more.

 

[willjeff]

I agree with lfjewitt, start out with 10 of these 10 of those and a few of them. I wouldn't recomend dumping 200 snails and crabs into a tank at once. Go to a local fish store and find out what you like, then shop around. Good luck, sometimes the clean up crew can be more interesting then the fish themselves.

 

[Brent Thomann]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6686956#post6686956 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lfjewett
Ok so the comments about overstocking snails are the best in this thread! Below are what I recommend you start with.

2 shrimp of your choice ( I like the skunk cleaner shimp )
2 Serpant Stars ( VERY fun to watch eat my kids love um )
8 Nassarius Vibex Snails.
4 Mexican Turbos ( Great hair algea eaters )
2 Fighting conch ( not queen! )
14 Cerith Snails
8 Nerite
5 Margarita Snails
2-6 Maroon Hermits.

so get Maroon Hermits instead of small/dwarf blue legs hermits. Will the Maroon Hermits harm my small fish or corals?

Thank you SO much guys for all the feedback!!!

 

[keepsmesane]

Re: Help! Need Cleanup Crew, $200 limit, New 180gal (LOTS of PICS)

I agree with lfjewett' list also!

brown is normal when cycling. But I would get more live sand. Make it a 4" or 5" deep sand bed! You could get more live rock. that is 220lbs of live rock? looks more like 50lbs.


what kind of Protein skimmer is in the sump? That is very important!

I cant believe that big of a tank is not "reef-ready" (pre-drilled for overflow). Must not be a marine tank, doesnt matter, you have a good dual overflow box there.

 

[lfjewett]

I'm no expert here but I do alot of reading.. Check out this link Premium Aquatics Crabs My local store calls these maroon hermits. I do have 1 and he is very fun to watch.. He also does eat a fair ammount of algea. Many here do not like crabs because they are scavengers and can also eat helpfull critters in sandbeds etc. I keep 1 Maroon and 1 Electric blue in my 50G tank just for the kids to watch. Suprisingly we seem to find them at least once a day.

 

[Brent Thomann]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6688395#post6688395 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lfjewett
I'm no expert here but I do alot of reading.. Check out this link Premium Aquatics Crabs My local store calls these maroon hermits. I do have 1 and he is very fun to watch.. He also does eat a fair ammount of algea. Many here do not like crabs because they are scavengers and can also eat helpfull critters in sandbeds etc. I keep 1 Maroon and 1 Electric blue in my 50G tank just for the kids to watch. Suprisingly we seem to find them at least once a day.

so would the scarlets hermits be more reef and small critter/fish friendly? nobody seems to have maroon hermits but they do have the scarlets hermits.

 

[lfjewett]

Follow that link you'll see they they are also known as the Reef Janitor or Mexican baha red leg hermits. They are very popular. They should not touch your fish. ( unless it's dead ). To be honest I don't consider my 2 crabs "part of the crew".. They are just there for fun. There is no "totally reef safe" hermit. Crabs are scavengers and will eat what they can. however most hermits sold ( blues, baha, scarlets ) are all about the same. The ones linked are the best I found reviews for.

 

[FEEDERFISH]

What is your flow like in the tank, maybe do a little upgrade with a part of that 200$

 

[jasonkola]

I agree with keepsmesane that dose look more like 50 lbs of rock now 200. your dealer might be ripping you off. as far as weather you need a deep sand bed that is a matter of choise. I would not go deeper than 2 inches unless you have a plenum under the sand. if I was to put the sand directly on the bottom like you 2 inches should be plenty.

 

[Brent Thomann]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6689001#post6689001 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jasonkola
I agree with keepsmesane that dose look more like 50 lbs of rock now 200. your dealer might be ripping you off. as far as weather you need a deep sand bed that is a matter of choise. I would not go deeper than 2 inches unless you have a plenum under the sand. if I was to put the sand directly on the bottom like you 2 inches should be plenty.

yes thats 220 lbs of live rock or more, most of the rocks are 12" or larger! 60 lbs of it is just hirock which was laid down right on the glass bottom so you don't even see a lot of it. The photo is very deceiving, makes the tank look a lot smaller then it really is. Here's another photo- http://partydamage.com/fishtank/09.jpg Total Height is 7' 1"

FEEDERFISH ...I'm in the process of adding a complete wavemaker setup, also have my returns hooked up to 4 hydor flo's (works awesome!). Those pumps you see in the tank are just temps. I used them to help get rid of the sandstorm. Just never took them out, thought it would help out until I added the wavemaker setup. MAN IF MY WIFE ONLY NEW HOW MUCH MONEY I'VE BEEN SPENDING ON THIS, I'D PROBABLY END UP IN THERE WITH THE FISH

keepsmesane ...I really like the look of the 2" sand bed which I've been told is fine. ...PS is a ASM G4+ (modded) been working out great! ...yeah, after buying the tank used from a previous reefer and learning more about the hobby I was really surprised it wasn't drilled myself. Since this is my first marine setup and I'd already had too many all-nighters working on every thing I didn't have any energy to have it drilled and just left the Ext. overflow, but I did end up making (not in pic) one of the tubes/drains a safety line. The other end was able to handle the 1000gph. Also working on a safety float switch (turn pump off) just in case the siphon gets disrupted.

lfjewett ...I thank you SO MUCH for your help, I owe you! You really helped me out on my decisions! I'm going to do exactly as you suggested. Having a hard time trying to order from one source to save on shipping though. Wonder if I should scout the LFS's, they are VERY expensive though.

Thanks to all. You guys really make this hobby that much better! Great group of people unlike my pass hobbies if you know what I mean. If it wasn't for the man in the black cape, I would of never gotten a tank probably, always wanted one though. I have a brother thats been building a huge custom tenecor for 2 years now. We do trade for their website tenecor.com

 

[techigirl78]

I have a few scarlet hermits and don't have any problems with them and my smaller fish. All of my corals haven't been touced either. I remember reading that the mexican red leg hermits tend to be more aggressive, so I went with a few scarlets just for some variety.