OK been fighting this for months, even changed buffers to reef buffer 8.3 by seachem, evey 3 days i have to add about 15 gallons to the sump and i always add 2 more scoops of 8.3 to it. Ph just keeps going lower and lower, Im doing a water change again and hope it doesnt kill any more prized fish. Last changes cost me an 11 clown trigger. Tested water before change its down to 7.4 which is rediculious. When I do these changes it kicks up to 8.3-8.6 with 50 gallons fresh mix. I did 20% 2 months ago, then few days later same ph problem so did a 50% water change of 140 gallons. Problems still went on. Theres over 500 pounds of live rock 100+ in live sand. Same system for years but ph just keeps dropping, WHY???
HELP PH just keeps dropping
- Thread starter hotwire73
- Start date
take a bucket of your water and put it outside with a power head in it. Let it sit and churn outside for an hour then test your PH in the bucket. If it has risen you are battling a CO2 problem. This can be from a series of issues either poor surface agitation but based on an etss1000 skimmer I would say no the next issue is what I fight which is having a fairly tightly sealed house running AC no open windows ETC. This causes the amount of oxygen in the air to be lower. some options for this would be to plumb a line to your skimmer that draws in outside air or use a CO2 scrubber.
Fibinotchi
Upstanding Citizen
Might you be having problems with too much organics trapped in your live rock? Any algae problems? Over crowding? Areas in the rock where detritus gets trapped?
ColaAddict
In Memoriam
You have to tell us your water params, especially alk/calc/magnesium. Mag is often overlooked by alot of people and it can cause your pH to crash. High CO2 is also a probably cause.
Have to get other test kits, got a calcium one, it always test around 560-600, really have no idea why when i dont supplement calcium. Other two been awhile, had read about fresh air being plumbed into the skimmer, but oygen level where 2.5 they tested fine. Ill try to find some of these additional test at the local store tomorrow. As for crowding yeah, got a 7 inch emperor, 7 inch golden puffer, 11 stars and stips puffer, 7 inch powder blue, 5 inch yellow mimic and powder blue tang, been trying to catch to give to my friend, you know how that goes. 10 inch v lion., 5 inch copperband. Thing is Ive had all these guys for a long time, there not even showing any signs of stress, etc. Fins all look very well, well rounded portioned bodies, havent used any form of copper in 8 months. Ive always heard its best to leave nature alone but 7.4 for ph is just getting to low. 2 months back it was a constant 7.6.
I have been thinking about installing a small ozone generator and running it though the skimmer, any thoughts to this?
As for surface movement etc, its like a tital wave. Have two 1300 gph wave maker, and 4 3200 gph wavemakes., also the 5500 gph main pump that runs that at 10 ft head, along with a 500 gph powerhead that does the 36 watt twister uv, and its return is used to move the surface area.
Alkalinity is 3.5 meg, never did like seachems test for these though.
I have been thinking about installing a small ozone generator and running it though the skimmer, any thoughts to this?
As for surface movement etc, its like a tital wave. Have two 1300 gph wave maker, and 4 3200 gph wavemakes., also the 5500 gph main pump that runs that at 10 ft head, along with a 500 gph powerhead that does the 36 watt twister uv, and its return is used to move the surface area.
Alkalinity is 3.5 meg, never did like seachems test for these though.
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Our local store still believes in cycling a tank with a damsel, never heard of vodka and nitrates, basically specializes in dogs, cats. Other salt water store in the city isnt open but 3 days a week, for like 4 hours those days, and they do is the basics, nitrite, ammonia, and ph. Been there before when I use to buy fish from them and they kept dying, probably around 2001-02. When the halide system kicks on Ill do a oxygen test, forgot I bought a red sea lab one about 3months ago. Seemed to test kinda low around 5 ppm, but this was while the lights where out for a few hours and we all know oxygen levels drop at night in a tank. Ill do a test about an hour after the halide cycles on. Still been wanting to get an ozone machine for this system, looking at a 1000mg/h one that is designed for water, just want to amke sure its not to much. Dont really want to buy a 200 dollar item just to watch ozone. Anyone know for 280 gallons volume an amount that should be safe to run all the time?
On a side note been putting pieces of romaine lettuce in the tank for my angels, they eat it and stuff but what is the type we are suppose to feed them something called nubich or something? Just cant find anything much at my local grocery store. Still feed him brine shrip, piscene mysis, occasional yakinori seaweed, and raw shrimp. Never could get them to eat the specturm fish formula stuff.
On a side note been putting pieces of romaine lettuce in the tank for my angels, they eat it and stuff but what is the type we are suppose to feed them something called nubich or something? Just cant find anything much at my local grocery store. Still feed him brine shrip, piscene mysis, occasional yakinori seaweed, and raw shrimp. Never could get them to eat the specturm fish formula stuff.
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Fibinotchi
Upstanding Citizen
Do you have macro in your sump and if so do you run your sump light 24/7?
No always dark sump, never put a light down there, so nothing really down there. Just dont have room, and hate to put anything else eletrical down there, have 5 surge protectors for this system,a ctually just spent 60 bucks today replacing them, salt and the occasional puffer spitting water, plus my splashing when cleaning the class etc. gets to them and they have alot of burn spots. Actually had one smoking, was lucky a few months ago I was home, skimmer went overboard and had stuff all down the walls and had apparently got on some wires and ran down them to the surge and it just sat there and burned. Sad thing these are designed for surges incoming and until they hit 15 amps draw dont usually kick, which is usually to late.
http://www.ozonegeneratormachines.com/water-ozone-generator-ozonator/water-ozonator.html
That is the ozone generator Im looking at, if its to much let me know. Halides just now got turned back on since I had to replace all the surges. Like I said nothing is even showing stress, ick or anything, all look healthy. ABout 2-3 months ago I tried forcing the ph up and the 2nd time I did that, it cost me my 10-11 clown trigger. He was my pride and joy considering he never bothered anyone else in the tank and everyone seemed to be peaceful with each other.
http://www.ozonegeneratormachines.com/water-ozone-generator-ozonator/water-ozonator.html
That is the ozone generator Im looking at, if its to much let me know. Halides just now got turned back on since I had to replace all the surges. Like I said nothing is even showing stress, ick or anything, all look healthy. ABout 2-3 months ago I tried forcing the ph up and the 2nd time I did that, it cost me my 10-11 clown trigger. He was my pride and joy considering he never bothered anyone else in the tank and everyone seemed to be peaceful with each other.
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Recty
New member
Just an FYI, pH swings are worse on fish than a steady, low pH. If you're raising pH from 7.4 to 8.3 in a day, I'm surprised you havent killed more fish than just one clown trigger.
Read up on WetWebMedia about pH, there is a pretty good section there and will teach you some things to try to raise your pH. For what it's worth, you can add common baking soda (unscented make sure) to your tank to raise the pH. It's what I did when I had pH problems and it's a LOT cheaper than any special for aquarium type setup. When I would hypo my 210, the pH always wanted to drop and it takes a lot of calcium carbonate to buffer the water back up, so baking soda was really my only option but it worked quite well.
Read up on WetWebMedia about pH, there is a pretty good section there and will teach you some things to try to raise your pH. For what it's worth, you can add common baking soda (unscented make sure) to your tank to raise the pH. It's what I did when I had pH problems and it's a LOT cheaper than any special for aquarium type setup. When I would hypo my 210, the pH always wanted to drop and it takes a lot of calcium carbonate to buffer the water back up, so baking soda was really my only option but it worked quite well.
update oxygen is 6 ppm 81 degrees, 1.023 salanity, should be 6.7 by my charts.
Yeah unfortuately when you add ph buffer its not unusual to spike to 8.6 temp. I hate it, last time that 2nd spike did him in. Thats why Im trying this different this time, just trying to understand fully why its dropping all the time before I continue to try to force it up. I still need to try the co2 test type.
Yeah unfortuately when you add ph buffer its not unusual to spike to 8.6 temp. I hate it, last time that 2nd spike did him in. Thats why Im trying this different this time, just trying to understand fully why its dropping all the time before I continue to try to force it up. I still need to try the co2 test type.
Recty
New member
Yep, that's also why I use baking soda. It doesnt do as much as a similar amount of the "aquarium grade" pH buffer, so you can add it slowly and slowly raise your pH without spiking and harming your fish.
You do need to do the CO2 test and I'd do it soon, for sure.
In the meantime, if it was my tank, I'd be slowly adding baking soda and raising the pH a couple .1 of a day.
You do need to do the CO2 test and I'd do it soon, for sure.
In the meantime, if it was my tank, I'd be slowly adding baking soda and raising the pH a couple .1 of a day.
Fibinotchi
Upstanding Citizen
The reason I asked about algae is it respires co2 at night when the lights go out and when the lights go on it absorbs co2. If you could add chaeto in the sump with a light running 24/7 it would absorb co2 and respire oxygen. Could help.
Also, if you have a lot of algae in the display it could be adding to you co2 problem.
Also, if you have a lot of algae in the display it could be adding to you co2 problem.
Na not alot of algae in the tank because the tangs and angel keep it picked. Kinda ood started test around 1130 for co2 and outside pump look like it started around 7.5-7.6ish, after 30 mins no real change, 2.5 hours later seems its up to 7.9, but I came in and retested the tank itself and its around 7.8, (during testing process left the front hood up). With the lid down it really only get new air from the open back but its only like 6 inches from the wall, guess its not getting enough air. Been wondering if the ozone machine will increase oxygen saturation as well? Just not practical to leave the lid open with that 400 watt halide blaring across the room since when Im on the bedroom it blinds me. Nightlights arent helping at night lol since this is at the foot of my bed.
(1) Will ozone machine increase oxygen and decrease co2?
(2) Onyway to possibly plumb in a line from outside is to drill though the floor, and across the under area by like 50 feet. Not drilling though my wall to outside, just paid about 20k for 25 square job of stucko. Do they make any larger airpumps besides these little bs pumps for aquariums that could supply a 1/4-1/2 inch line if I ran it though the floor to ouside?
(1) Will ozone machine increase oxygen and decrease co2?
(2) Onyway to possibly plumb in a line from outside is to drill though the floor, and across the under area by like 50 feet. Not drilling though my wall to outside, just paid about 20k for 25 square job of stucko. Do they make any larger airpumps besides these little bs pumps for aquariums that could supply a 1/4-1/2 inch line if I ran it though the floor to ouside?
if you can run some 3/4 lines from the air intakes on your skimmer through the floor to the outside it should draw in fresh air fine without any air pumps. Another option is a CO2 scrubber for the intake of the skimmer. The problem with these is the ones that are pr built are mainly for 1/4 or 3/8 in hose so you will have to DIY something that you can put some sodalime in then draw your air for your skimmer through it.
barbianj
New member
Why are you chasing the pH around, especially in a FOWLR? That can be a recipe for disaster. You have a good skimmer. Make sure you have powerheads pointed towards the water surface and get a good idea of the rest of your water chemistry. Get your calcium Alk and Mag in line before going after pH. Just my .02
reefergeorge
New member
Perfect.. I check ph once a year, maybe.. Its always 8.2-8.3..
In my opinion you are fighting CO2, and either need to draw air from outside, or open a window for a while.. FWIW, baking soda raised KH witch just helps steady ph. If you use washing powder (baked baking soda) it will raise ph, but be careful.
anbosu
New member
If it's a FOWLR tank, why would the OP worry about calcium and mg?
barbianj
New member
I wouldn't worry about Ca, but Mg supports the ratio of Ca and alk, and it's fairly common for FOWLR people to not have a basic idea where levels are and what they mean. IME, adding buffers to control pH without having an idea of what the basic water chemistry is usually indicates that. I could be wrong, but I made the same mistake at one point and precipitated a whole lot of calcium out of my water.
I need to get a mag test kit, oneof my other test kits came in today. Tested GH and KH, KH was 8, and KH well thats a weird one; is it for fresh water or something? I tested it and 50 drops later it never went even remotely green. Did this test twice, this would put GH already past 250% of the chart. Was thinking GH is more for fresh though. As stated working on mag. kit.
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