Help pick a camera

[aquariumclown]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14533975#post14533975 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jlinzmaier
Is the Xsi body capable of taking decent pics without the macro lens (for B-day parties, etc..). Sorry, not sure if I can take pics with it without a specific lens.

Jeremy

Jeremy,

For a dslr to work it requires 2 separate parts, the body and the lens. Point and shoot cameras are all in one. The body of a dslr cannot take pictures without a lens. When you buy a kit, it comes with a lens, usually something like a 17mm to 80mm zoom lens. This kit lens will allow you to take all general photos with good results, portraits, landscape, semi macro, etc.

 

[Jacob D]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14522339#post14522339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jlinzmaier
I'm a reefer not a photographer...
Jeremy

I'm not ragging on you, but I just don't understand your thought process. Why would anyone would bother to spend money on a camera and related gear, then spend time taking pictures and possibly processing them in Photoshop etc... without making an effort to understand what you're doing? You're going to end up with a collection of snap shots, nothing close to art and probably nothing you would even want to print out and put on your wall.

There are plenty of point and shoot cameras for under $200 that will be capable of doing more than you'll probably ever push them to do.

The G10 is a fine camera. I used to own a G3 and it served me well to take some great pictures. Based on your own posts I wouldn't recommend it to you. I wouldn't recommend a DSLR either. If you're not prepared to invest some time and money, then don't waste either of them; get a budget priced point and shoot.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14533975#post14533975 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jlinzmaier
Is the Xsi body capable of taking decent pics without the macro lens (for B-day parties, etc..). Sorry, not sure if I can take pics with it without a specific lens.

Jeremy

That's a strange question. Sure the camera is capable of taking 'decent' pics of just about anything with just about any lens. If you just want decent pics stick to a point and shoot.

 

[TitusvileSurfer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14531206#post14531206 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jtrasap
Actually the A590's firmware can be upgraded to support RAW images. Everything else that you mentioned is a moot point considering the price difference. The G10 is a camera for that photo guy who already has $15,000 worth of photo equipment and has an extra $500 in change in the cracks of his couch to throw on a point and shoot for those times that he doesn't feel like lugging his bigger equipment around. That's not the case here and considering that you can get more camera for the same money in an entry level DSLR and he now understands that, I really don't see any point in you trolling the thread posting your pointless sarcasm to start arguments.

The DSLR you get for that money is an inferior setup. He has to spend money he does not have to be better. The G10 was $100 UNDER BUDGET. I don't see any point in your trolling the thread posting pie in the sky dream setups just to contradict me. Your posts have no sustenance. Just a lot of hot air. Aside from the A590 and a very recent Xsi link, you never did mention a lens, a camera, or anything. So you present a DSLR which is nearly $200 over budget. Okay I suppose he can stretch that. Now his whole reason of doing this was to take "very close up pictures" and does your $679 get him that? Nooo now he has to spend another $500 to do what he wants. So now he has spent over double his intended budget and still needs a tripod. Smooth...

 

[jtrasap]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14534595#post14534595 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TitusvileSurfer
The DSLR you get for that money is an inferior setup. He has to spend money he does not have to be better. The G10 was $100 UNDER BUDGET. I don't see any point in your trolling the thread posting pie in the sky dream posts just to contradict me. Aside from the A590 and a very resent Xsi link, you never did mention a lens, a camera, or anything. So you present a DSLR which is nearly $200 over budget. Okay I suppose he can stretch that. Now his whole reason of doing this was to take "very close up pictures" and does your $679 get him that? Nooo now he has to spend another $500 to do what he wants. Your posts have no sustenance. Just a lot of hot air.

The DSLR kits that you can pick up for around the same money are a whole lot more camera than any point and shoot on the market. That point has been mentioned by more people than just I.

 

[TitusvileSurfer]

You can get a DSLR kit for $400 that will take better reef images than the G10? Like what? At least I add a lot of real, usable information and listen to the origional posters. Lame smart a@# comments seem to be the extent of your contribution. That said I'll let you get in the last word and we're done.

 

[jtrasap]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14534711#post14534711 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TitusvileSurfer
At least I add a lot of real, usable information and listen to the origional posters.

Obviously not considering your the one who threw in the XSI and the original poster is the one who decided that it may be a better option after all.

 

[TitusvileSurfer]

Do you even TRY to read these threads?!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14505902#post14505902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NixPack
You can probably get the Canon xti for under $500 now and that is an excellent camera as well.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14506608#post14506608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TitusvileSurfer
An Xsi and 100mm f/2.8 Macro will run you $1000. This is without any other lenses or accessories........Enter the Canon G10

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14511013#post14511013 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jtrasap

Are you looking for a DSLR or a point and shoot?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14511243#post14511243 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jlinzmaier Don't even know what DSLR is???

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14511953#post14511953 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TitusvileSurfer
He is looking for something $500 or less. DSLR's are for people in the $2000+++ range.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14512994#post14512994 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jtrasap
Actually DSLR's have come down a whole lot in pricing. You can pick up a very nice used one on ebay for under $500 easily.

(No example of brand...model....nothing)

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14513136#post14513136 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TitusvileSurfer
And what does $500 camera do for you? Absolutely nothing.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14513231#post14513231 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jtrasap

A person could easily pick up a decent used DSLR body, a middle of the road zoom lens, and a decent macro lens for close up pics of fish and corals and other various tank shots for under $500.

Make? Model? VIN? Anything aside from "oh yeah sure it can be done EASILY"? Two pages later you link to an XSi with a kit lens for around $700 which can't take close ups of corals or any of the stuff he wants to do. Like he said after all...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14503707#post14503707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jlinzmaier
I could spend up to $500 on a camera......This camera need not have any other capabilities other than taking good pics of my tank, corals, and fish (I already have another camera for all the rest).

...all you have done is give him a camera better at what his other camera already does. Now he has two cameras (one $200 over budget) but still can't do what he wants. Why are you on my back? Open your eyes.

 

[jtrasap]

If you would actually go back and read the thread you would see that I posted some links to cameras. You would also see that you're just about the only one suggesting that the G10 would be a better option than an entry level DSLR.

 

[TitusvileSurfer]

DSLR:2 G10:2 (I am totally assuming jthao is for the G10 while he may not be)...regardless those aren't impressive statistics. I'm suggesting for his BUDGET the point and shoot is a sane option. You're not going to do better than a G10 in a reef for less than $1000. You need the DSLR body, a macro lens, and a normal lens for fish. None of your examples even do what he wants. You're not even taking into account what he is trying to accomplish here.

 

[jtrasap]

The A200 kit that I posted would easily do what he wants to do much better than the G10 and he would actually have lot's of upgrade options for the future unlike the G10 where he would be stuck with what he get's...a point and shoot....albeit a good one, it's still just a point and shoot.

 

[TitusvileSurfer]

Firstly I didn't see that link before so I apologize there. However it DOES NOT DO WHAT HE WANTS!

What DOES Jlinzmaier want you ask? The answer is closeups of corals! Once again you have presented a camera which is better than the one he already has (although within budget this time). The 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 lens in that kit is a far cry from macro. It is a poor fish lens, and all around not what jlinzmaier is looking for.

The fact is, The A200 kit you suggested will not do what he wants better than the G10 without substantial upgrades down the road. In the mean time...hes just...waiting to afford those upgrades.

 

[jtrasap]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14535067#post14535067 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TitusvileSurfer
Firstly I didn't see that link before so I apologize there. However it DOES NOT DO WHAT HE WANTS!

What DOES Jlinzmaier want you ask? The answer is closeups of corals! Once again you have presented a camera which is better than the one he already has (although within budget this time).

That a200 kit would easily do closeups of corals with what it comes with and it even includes a tripod although probably not that great of one. And he is planning on doing more than just closeups of corals, he wants full tank shots as well as other things. Anyhow, the main concern was that he was intimidated by DSLR's and now that he realizes that there's nothing to worry about, I think he's decided to spend a bit more and get the XSI, which is an awesome entry level DSLR and in my opinion a much better idea than the G10. Just about any DSLR would be. at least with a DSLR it can grow as he becomes more confident and saves his pennies...

 

[TitusvileSurfer]

The G10 had better macro capability than that kit, and it could do full tank shots equally as well. If the OP wants to grow into photography and spend lots of money, then by all means go for it. If he expects to spend $500 and be done...forget it. If I expects to spend $1000 and be done...that isn't realistic...the budget was set at $500. I was respecting his pocketbook. I fully and completely believe the G10 is a more capable camera than any other DSLR package offered as an alternative so far. It was $100 under budget and would have out preformed other suggestions $200 over budget. I have no regrets. If the OP wants to spend $1300 for a XSi, 100mm f/2.8 macro, and a tripod...then that completely changes the game. Up until he decided on an XSi we were playing with a different budget.
Of course he will have to spend at least $500 on a fish lens so that ups him toward a NEW $2000 budget. 4x the original $500 to spend. Will the new $2000 setup outperform the $400 G10? Yes. Would the G10 have done a great job for 1/5 the price? Yes...but if you can afford a $2000 DSLR, I agree it is the way to go.

 

[jtrasap]

.............:rollface: ...........:rollface: ................


You sound like a Canon rep trying to push the G10 to meet some sort of a quota on G10 sales or something..Don't get em wrong, it's a great point and shoot, but just a point and shoot. And by the time you add the tripod to it your over the budget as well....

 

[aquariumclown]

TitusvileSurfer and jtrasap, with all due respect for your opinions, as this conversation between you 2 seems to be getting personal. Please take it private.

Thanks

 

[jlinzmaier]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14534124#post14534124 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mothra
I'm not ragging on you, but I just don't understand your thought process. Why would anyone would bother to spend money on a camera and related gear, then spend time taking pictures and possibly processing them in Photoshop etc... without making an effort to understand what you're doing? You're going to end up with a collection of snap shots, nothing close to art and probably nothing you would even want to print out and put on your wall.

That's a strange question. Sure the camera is capable of taking 'decent' pics of just about anything with just about any lens. If you just want decent pics stick to a point and shoot.

I plan to sell corals in the future and a quality pic can go a long ways for coral sales. That's why I want a quality camera for close up pics of my corals. It's not just because I want to blow some money on a camera!!

Can a DSRL body take decent pics - yeah that's a silly question now that I look back on it, however remember I'm not a photographer and lots of this stuff is quite foreign to me and I may ask a silly question here or there as I'm learning. Bear with me.



Titusville and Jtrasap

Your both obviously quite knowledgeable about cameras and I may have led each of you astray with my postings and frequency of how often I've changed my mind. I've changed my mind about what I want and how much I can spend several times in this thread because I've learned a lot as many of you have made several valid points about different cameras and camera styles.

I appreciate each of you taking the time to guide me to the right choice. I truthfully don't know what the right choice is and I need to do some more research.

It sounds like the G10 is a top ranked point and shoot at the $500 range. I've read several threads about the G10 and it's pic taking abilities and I see it's good and bad points. I understand much more about what a DSLR is and I understand how it can be better for close up coral shots but is limited in other capabilities without the purchase of other lenses.

Again thank you everyone for your input. I apologize for my sometimes vague and ignorant questions and each of you have been patient with me helped me learn a lot. As I come up with more specific questions I'll post back.

Thanks.

Jeremy

 

[TitusvileSurfer]

Fair enough, sorry for spamming your thread with our rants, even though the banter may have actually been helpful in highlighting various advantages/shortcomings. I really do think the DSLR is the way to go...it just takes a lot of money to do it right.

 

[jtrasap]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14536639#post14536639 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TitusvileSurfer
Fair enough, sorry for spamming your thread with our rants, even though the banter may have actually been helpful in highlighting various advantages/shortcomings. I really do think the DSLR is the way to go...it just takes a lot of money to do it right.

+1

Sorry.....guess it was my Type A personality and a bit of a bad week.

 

[jlinzmaier]

Found this package with the Xsi.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-Digit...as?hash=item140304361562&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14

Noticed it says SLR and not DSLR. Is there a difference?

Is it a decent entry level package?

Please detail what in this package is of poor quality or could be better. Obviously I'd need a macro lens for good close ups, but I'm under the impression this package could give me a wide variety of picture taking capability.

Would this package be able to take pics as well as what a G10 can do (that is if I learn to use it all correctly)?? Sorry if this is comparing apples to oranges - just trying to learn by comparison.

Thanks.

Jeremy

 

[TitusvileSurfer]

Well that looks like a well rounded starter package but it has a lot of stuff which isn't necessary and I don't care for much of the necessary stuff.

The camera body (Xsi) is great.
The Canon 50mm f/1.8 is an excellent value lens
The Tamron 28-80mm and 75-300mm lenses are not so great (okay really not so great).
The "Wide Angle Lens" and "2x Telephoto lens" are even worse than the Tamrons. I don't want to use the word "worthless", but you get the idea. I would put the "digital flash" in the "not so great" category as well.

It gives you 2x 8 gig SD cards, but one 4 gig gives me over 350 RAW images. The basic point is 2x 8 gig SD cards are way overkill. Your battery will run out long before you use up those cards.

The "SLR Large Case" looks great. The Hard Shell case looks like a waste of money.

You shouldn't need a tutorial CD, the manual included with the camera is excellent.

The three piece filter kit is trash IMO, as are the two UV filters.

The "Multi Section Tripod" and "Mini Travel Tripod" aren't worth the effort IMO.

I don't know why you need a USB card reader when just plugging your camera directly into the computer is less effort than taking the memory card out of the camera, plugging the memory card into a thumb drive, and plugging the thumb drive into the computer, off loading the images, and putting the memory card back in your camera. It seems like a good way to get a lot of wear and tear on the memory card and the camera's female port which could easily be avoided. Never mind the excess hassle of using it.

A memory card wallet? Why do you have a camera bag? It should have a built in memory card pouch.

The LCD screen protectors are a waste of money. Just wipe the screen off with the inside of your shirt. The plastic on the back is very durable and, after a couple of years if it gets scratched, you can easily replace it for less money than 2 years worth of screen protectors.

The lens cleaning kit looks good. Of course I spend about $2 a year buying my cleaning kits from a mom and pop camera shop.

The lens cap holder looks like it would just get in the way. Place the lens cap in you camera bag and replace it when you put the lens away. You have to screw another cap on the back of the lens anyway at this time. When the camera is around you neck, you shouldn't be using a lens cap anyway.

The strap, charger, battery, USB cable (plug the camera directly into the computer), Video cable, and Canon software are useful but they come with the camera anyway regardless of who you buy it from. I don't care for the Rebel strap though.

I say you go to B&H and get a XSi, 50mm f/1.8, 100mm f/2.8 Macro, and a nice tripod for your macro work. You would spend a couple hundred more than this mostly worthless filler $1000 kit and be better for it.