Help please. new tank problems. open vs closed loop

[tworoads]

hi

let me start by saying im feeling soooo deflated and defeated.

i just invested a good $5,000 on a new tank. its a 120 gallon 48x24x24 with an aprox 47 gallon sump/fuge. i just filled it up with RO/DI with took two days. the system is currently an open loop system. there are two returns on the left and right and an overflow box right in the middle.

1. I don't think there is enough water in the whole system. when i turn on the the pump it sucks air after 30 seconds because the sump water goes too low.

2. im worried about adding more water because i did a 'power outage' test and the sump came so close to over flowing i had to plug the pump back in.

3. the pump its self is very loud, when it was running, it was louder than my dishwasher. any ideas for making the whole thing more quite?

4. the falling water sound from the overflow is tooooooo loud. any ideas for making this more quite?

5. i dont know what they are called, (see picture) but they are too long or something. when i shut off the power to the pump, they keep siphoning water and if i let it, they sump will over flow. they need to be pointed almost upward for to stop siphoning.

i feel like i made a five thousand dollar mistake!?@?!@?#

Can this be made a closed system? would it be quieter if it was closed?

Thanks for any heads up you can give.
Ron

 

[cdness]

post a pic of the tank to show the placement of the overflow.

On to the questions:

1. I don't think there is enough water in the whole system. when i turn on the the pump it sucks air after 30 seconds because the sump water goes too low.

[CDN] It should not go that low to suck air. Look at the height of the overflow and the teeth. You need to have a large enough sump to handle the water in the piping and the overflow.

2. im worried about adding more water because i did a 'power outage' test and the sump came so close to over flowing i had to plug the pump back in.

[CDN] Do you have check valves on the return lines? This will prevent the siphon from flowing back into the sump. I know if I didn't have the check valve in mine I would have major issues as well .

3. the pump its self is very loud, when it was running, it was louder than my dishwasher. any ideas for making the whole thing more quite?

[CDN] Use some silicome to reduce vibrations of the pump in the sump. There are many threads on RC about reducing the vibrations and I think the most effective has been using beads of silicone on the bottom of the pump mount. Also are you using PVC or flex tubing? The flex tubing will not vibrate as much.

4. the falling water sound from the overflow is tooooooo loud. any ideas for making this more quite?

[CDN] Look into an internal or external durso. It is basically a T fitting on the drain line with a short vertical pipe. That pipe has a cab with a small hole in it. The bottom of the T goes to the drain into the sump. That's how mine is set up and seems to be very quiet.

5. i dont know what they are called, (see picture) but they are too long or something. when i shut off the power to the pump, they keep siphoning water and if i let it, they sump will over flow. they need to be pointed almost upward for to stop siphoning.

[CDN] this will be solved by the use of a check valve as well. you will need one on the pipe between the return pump and the T which splits to each return.

 

[doubleduece]

First off you didnt make a $5000 dollar mistake, but maybe you went to fast and didnt think things all the way thru. So I will give you my 2 cents........

Depending what type of tank you are going to keep i.e, fish only, sps,lps, or mixed will determine who much water you need to pump, typically 10 to20 times your tank volume, so at 120 gallons you need to have 1200 gph min. thru your system, sps systems need more. You dont have to do this with one pump, you could use a combo of open loop, closed loop, and powerheads. Your over flow on the back of your tank is only going to flow a certain amount of water, so your return pump has to match it, if your pump is pumping to much water it will empty out your sump because the over flow cannot keep up. You should have a valve, and/or a bypass back to your sump or both, to balance it...

Your linelocks, or returns to the tank should have a check valve to prevent the water from siphoning during a power failure.

Is your pump sitting directly on your stand or do you have any cushioning or vibration elimination, that could be your noise problem with the pump. The over flow noise problem could be either to much flow thru the overflow or a design problem. Pictures of your system, how it is plumbed, overflow plumbing etc. would help.......

The ideal way to do a closed loop is to drill the tank, but you could plumb it over the rim of the tank, it doesnt look as good...

There are many diffrent ways your system could be plumbed overall... Im sure many good ideas will be posted...

 

[Jay180reef]

Hi Ron,

First off, congrats on getting your tank setup! We all know what it feels like to work so hard, figuring out all the pieces and dropping so much cash, only to have it not turn out like we had hoped.
From your post, I see issues that affect ALL new reefers, so don't feel like you need to take them on alone! I recommend you spend a few hours searching through the 'New to the hobby' forum, reading as much as you can and take notes.
I don't know how long it took you to set your tank up, but I'm new as well, and I spent 6 months planning and constructing before adding water. You'll find out there is more than one way to tackle problems, but be patient and do your homework.
There are very experienced and helpful people at reefcentral, you will really benefit from experienced advice from top posters like Sk8r, capn_hylinur, BeanAnimal etc.

Have fun,

 

[Jay180reef]

I've got a 40gal sump for my 180 main tank so your sump should be adequate. What size overflow bulkheads are you using? Are they able to handle the high flow of your pump?
When you turn on your pump there has to be enough water to fill the main tank and overflow back to the sump, balancing the intake/uptake.
To prevent a sump overflow, I installed (like cdn said) a one way flow valve right after the pump, called a check valve. In case of power failure, the reverse flow closes the valve preventing a flood, and stops the siphoning effect.
I think my pump is too loud as well, so I used styrofoam to line the inside of my stand to reduce sound. And the pump should not rest directly on the base, as stated above.
The loud overflow waterfall is also a quick fix, installing a durso style standpipe, as mentioned, virtually eliminates the overflow noise.

 

[Sk8r]

You may have too powerful a pump: you can insert a valve in the return hose and choke it back a little, which will let the system operate more smoothly. I have a basement sump, and I let myself get talked into an Iwaki 100 for a 54 g. The knowledgeable may snicker here...I don't mind. I have a valve to tone it down, or the pump would blast water clean out of my tank and into the living room windows---it would drain my sump quite low, quite fast, and vastly exceed the flow/diameter of my downflow hose, creating quite a nasty flood. One valve calms it all down, and doesn't hurt the pump, which 'thinks' it's just lifting water up TWO floors, not one.