HELP! tank upgrade and acro RTNfest

kevensquint

Active member
Before yesterday I changed over from my 2 1/2 years running 65 to a new 125. I used everything from my 65 in my new tank with only a few changes. In my new tank I used 100% new salt water and I added another skimmer. Thats it, same LR, same lights (+1) same exact water params. I don't plan on the tank cycling and if it will, it has'nt started, so its not that. All my acros are disintegrading (skin is flaking off all over the coral) except for my bottlebrush, montis,LPS and softies, they are all fine.
 
Re: HELP! tank upgrade and acro RTNfest

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7396250#post7396250 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kevensquint
In my new tank I used 100% new salt water and I added another skimmer.

How long did you let the water sit and aerate and mix before you added it?
 
The water was areated and mixed during a week before the change. I wanted to be sure everything was good and stable before doing it. Also the old tank had been an SSB and this new one is a BB with tons more current, but nothing directly on the corals. I had been neglecting the old tank a bit for the past 3 weeks, while I installed the new one and nitrates + organics had been creeping up a bit. Where as the new tank is big time clean.
 
How long after addition to the new tank did the Acros start to necrose? Did you cut your photoperiod at all? Was there any noticeable difference in water clarity between the old and new water?

JMO - such a dramatic change in water chemistry can really mess with bacterial populations. Even though you used the same rock, the associated bacteria were populated around an equilibirum with that old water chemistry. Chances are real good (IMO) that the basis of the problem is a disruption of the bacterial load.

How much skimmate is being produced?
 
I would have used 25% of the old water.
test some water, there are many things that could be wrong.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7396848#post7396848 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G-money

JMO - such a dramatic change in water chemistry can really mess with bacterial populations. Even though you used the same rock, the associated bacteria were populated around an equilibirum with that old water chemistry. Chances are real good (IMO) that the basis of the problem is a disruption of the bacterial load.


Without a doubt thats the problem.
 
Yeah , I considered using some of the old water, but after asking in reef discussion most people said that since the nitrobactor is mainly on the LR I could use this opertunity to do a 100% WC. Even Randy told me this, it does'nt mean its true, but thats why I did it. Here's what happened after I let the new water mature, I had the U.V's running, the skimmers, heaters and pumps + carbon. I did the changeover of LR, fish and corals on wednesday evening. Which means the normal photoperiod was cut about in half on wed. Thursday when I got home in the evening, I worked on installing the lights from the old tank, by the time that was done it was late last night so the photoperiod lasted about 2 hrs. It was during this initial lights on that I saw a few acros flaking. The ones that did'nt flake have no P/E, and they normally do. On the same token, my normally finiky GSP will stay closed if something is wrong, and it is open. I may already be ....., but if you have any ideas of the cause or cure I am here.
 
Having your params change like that did didn't help your bacteria in the live rock at all. Bacteria require stability. Instability causes fluxes in the bacteria which can kill it off. Its that effect which is causing acros to rtn . IMO
 
It's not all about the Nitrobacter. :)
That's only one component of the baterial load. Perhaps there was a population of sulfer-reducing bacteria (for example) who were deprived of nutrients after the water change and began to die, releasing someting(s) toxic into the water too quickly to be tolerated. This is only a general example. Bacteria are not all about the nitrogen cycle. There are other independent bacterial cycles present in a mature system. All of them matter.

There are also bacteria growing in/on plumbing pipes, on the aquarium surfaces, etc...which contribute to the water chemistry of the system. I don't know if you used the same plumbing or not, but it's a factor.

Even though you used the same rock, it's not the same system. What you did is not all that different from fully stocking a brand new tank in one day. I know, I did the same thing once.....ONCE! :D I'm afraid that if this was the main factor, you'll never know exactly...for sure....what caused it.

I'd have to think real hard if I've ever seen a case where a one-day tank changeover went without a hitch. If so, it would be the exception IME.

I can't offer any proof that what I'm saying is the cause of your dilemma....but sometimes common biological sense is worth more than a test result. :) The bottom line is that the foundation of a mature (assumingly stable) system had its equilibrium disrupted.
 
Actually I don't know what params changed that you guys are referring to? Here are my params in the old tank, then the new. S.G 1.026 PH 8.1 Temp. 80F Alk 9DKH Ca 420 ppm Mg 1300 ppm nitrates 5 ppm, phos 0. New S.G 1.026 PH 8.1 Temp 80F Alk 9 DKH Ca 430ppm Mg 1275 ppm, nitrates/phos 0. They are 99% identicle. If its some kind of bacteria issue, then I am at a loss, but I went to great lengths to make the params as identicle as possible before I did the change. :)
 
The things you can test for are far fewer than the things you can't test for. The gamut of heavy metals, sulfer, organics...on and on. All things toxic to certain corals at different concentrations.

We see everyday how many tanks are having "trouble" when the tested parameters are "perfect". There's so much more to it than good pH, Ca, Alk and Mg...
 
using your old tank water would have been a good idea . . .

as others have stated, the the 100% water change probably threw off the whole ecosystem- whereas you may not be waiting on a full cycle, you're waiting on the live rock to repopulate the bacteria cultures in the water column.

I recently switched from a 30g to a 58g ... using ALL my old water and adding about 30 gallons of new water to it. everything went without a hitch- no losses . . .

Good luck and keep us updated!
 
Well they hit the nail on the head, you really should have moved as much water over as possible.

When I moved over to a new home I had to transfer everything from a 120gl to a 225gl. Took almost two months but little by little I moved water over, 30gl at a time.

Good luck.
 
I don't have too much to add except that there is a biotic factor that we just can not test for and that Acros are sensitive to. Honestly the upgrade could still have been hard on your Acros even if you used what clean old water you could. Acros are just sensitive and you can not help but disrupt the balance of a tank when moving or upgrading.

Keeping the tank cooler 75-77 may help although I would not lower it quickly. Also running the photoperiod a little shorter or putting some screan between the lights and tank for a week or so may help the corals adapt.

Best Wishes,
Barry Katz
 
Of my acros that are OK so far, but don't have P/E, should I put them in a fellow reefers tank for a month or so. Or would the stress of changing tanks again be too much?. What would be my best move now.?
 
I had a SSB, and everyone was unanimous in telling me don't use the sand. Some people said use all new water, some said some new and some old. But everyone said don't use the old sand. I did'nt. Once I removed the LR, I'm not even sure what was sand and what was rotting waste, yuck. Just got home, nothing has RTNed to death. I still have time. Should I bring the acros to my friends reef or leave them and see.?
 
I think moving them to another 'different' system will probably be the kiss of death...ride it out and since things have not gotten worse maybe a slow recovery is in the cards...JMO. Good Luck
 
I moved from a 80 aga to a 120 aga in 10/05. I kept all the live rock and used 100% nsw from uc Santa Barbara filtered water system. All new plumbing, pumps, sump,skimmer etc. I let the new tank cycle for a month this way while the corals were on a egg crate system in the old tank.
I only lost one sps coral in the transfer, looking back I think this might have been a bit harsh and to quick of a transfer between tanks. 6 months later things are looking great as the tank matures.
Just sharing my experience with you I know you were lookng for more of an answer to what happen to yourserf. I hope with myself and the other answers it has helped you in some way.
 
Thank you all very much for your advice. Since I got home 8 hrs ago there has been no increase in RTN. Things are stable for now. I will ride it out and in a month or so I can post what happened. One thing is for sure, I will never do it this way again.
 
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