Help treating the Clown

[Tuguldur]

I am newbie here on this forum and also in this saltwater business!

I had a tropical tank with large oscars for years in my country (Mongolia), but I always wanted to have a saltwater aquarium. Since Mongolia is a landlocked country, as a kid I never had the chance and I would be very surprised if I see a single saltwater tank even now.

Anyways, I came to US and finally having a chance to fulfill my dreams. I did some reading online before starting, but I guess I didn't do it enough so that I bought a false percula clowns from f***** PETCO. Just yesterday I found out about the funky business going around with PETCO...

So I setup a 14g tank with live rock, waited about a month, all parameters seemed to be good, then I borrowed my friend's yellow tail and he survived with no problems for 3 weeks. A week ago went to f***** PETCO and bought 2 false perculas for only 30$. ( I know I am messed up).

Fishes seemed to be doing fine on the first day, unfortunately from the second day I notice white spots all over the fishes and long white poop sticking from both of them. Did some more reading, and I think I also bought the crypto bacteria with some fancy intestinal parasite from the store.

Now one of the clowns is on the merge of death, not eating, breathing heavily and always staying on the surface for air. The other one is eating rather well, being active, but still has the spots all over his body, but a bit fewer than the dying one. I am sure it will die soon after the other if I do nothing and leave in the tank.

I regret that I should have spent twice more at the LFS for a healthy fish, but hey on the good side I am giving these unlucky bastards a chance to live a good life, since they're going to die in petco tank anyways. So I am gna setup a QT tomorrow, and leave the 14g tank for 5 weeks till the parasite dies off. And I got some questions from the experts:

1) what medicines should I use? (for intestinal parasite and white spots) I read about bunch of them but its hard to decide without any experience.

2) how long the fishes should be in the QT minimally? till the white spots disappear?

3) in the 14g tank, beside clowns I have a hermit crab, snail and a blood shrimp. If I take out the clowns to QT and leave everything else there would the crypto bacteria die off? can't they survive on the shrimp, crab or snail?

I will really appreciate your help!
thanks,
Tuguldur

 

[jcw]

1) prazipro is good for some intestinal parasites (but not ich) and relatively safe and easy to find.
hyposalinity or copper(cupramine) works for ich

2) i've read 4-6 weeks in QT after all the ich have gone

3) i think while invert can carry ich into a tank, i don't think they are a host for the parasite. although i could be wrong.
i think traditional thinking is 8 weeks with no fish in the display tank (the term fallow is used) gives you a very good chance that the parasite is no longer present

 

[duncantse]

1) Kordon Rid Fungus has a lot of good review on it, you might want to consider.
http://www.petco.com/product/102761/Kordon-Rid-Fungus.aspx

2)If your fish are happy and eating regularly right now, I suggest you not to QT the fish. Dipped your fish food in garlic juice and give it to your fish. This won't get rid of ich but help boost the immune system so the fish will fight back the ich.

3)ICH won't survive on inverts. If you leave your tank with no fish for 4 weeks minimum, the ich will die off.

Again, if your fish is healthy and eating, I suggest not to QT the fish. Catching the fish with a net will stress the fish a lot and can die from it. In my opinon the best method is to use oragnic medications that is reef safe in your tank and mix fish food with garlic juice.

If you choose to QT the fish and do either copper or hyposalinity treatment, make sure to do at least 2 water changes per day or the ammonia and nitrite will appear.

 

[Tuguldur]

many thanks to both of you!

duncantse, one of my clowns is not eating, breathing heavily and swimming vertically on the surface. I am pretty sure I have to do something. The other one is doing better, eating somewhat and being a bit more active but also has the white spots and the intestinal parasite. So I think I should take both of them to QT, because taking only the really sick one will leave the other in the main tank, in other words I will be leaving a host to the parasites.

Would you please clarify on why I have to do water changes twice? I will probably be doing copper based stuff in QT tomorrow, but I was thinking to set the QT using the water from the main tank. Is this wrong? since the water in the main tank is already cycled I thought I would be doing normal 25% change every 2 weeks. Or are you saying the ammonia and nitrate accumulate due to copper solutions?

thanks,
Tuguldur

 

[Tuguldur]

update:

the weak clown just died today afternoon

the other one is doing better but apparently not eating well, the white spots are all over its body.

So I went to the local lfs, and the guy there told me that instead of setting up a QT I can use a product called "NOX-ICH". He said its not based on copper so its gna be ok for the invertebrates. Added 28 drops to my 14g tank, turned all blue... I also took out the carbon filter so that the medicine stays in the water.

The package says to use it for 3 days in a row and if the problem is still there, wait a day and then the another 3days in a row.

Before adding the Nox-ich, I have read some reviews on the product and seemed like it worked for some and didn't for others. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens and will update here.

Let me know if any of you guys have any experience with this product.

thanks,
Tuguldur

 

[mrbill24]

I don't have any direct experience with that product, but most treatments besides hyposailinity and copper are considered 'snake oil'. If it were me I would be considering starting over. Since your tank is only 14g, it shouldn't be that much work if needed.

 

[Tuguldur]

mrbill24, I think you're right...

I have added the NOX-ICH yesterday, water turned all blue but everything seemed to be ok...until today morning I found my blood shrimp, cone snail and black snail dead. The hermit crab was alive and was feeding on the shrimp carcass.

The clown was very stressed, it would swim for about 5min the go down to lay on the ground for 30min. I have added the second round of 28drops of NOX-ICH today afternoon and the clown is even more stressed. Not sure at this point to do the 3rd round tomorrow or not.

The clown is not eating and still lying on the ground breathing heavily. I have a feeling that it will not survive till tomorrow...

If the clown is still alive tomorrow, I guess I'll do the 3rd round. If not, I don't have a choice but to start everything again.

In case if I start over everything again:

-can I use my old LRs? how do I clean them from the NOX-ICH? would a carbon filter be enough?
-if I clean the tank with water-vinegar solution would this be enough? if so how should I mix the vinegar and water?

thanks,
Tuguldur