Help! Why did almost everything die!!!

[bigdog0598]

Ok, so i had a bad ich breakout, i waited 2 weeks to see if anyone would do better just soaking food in garlic, they didn't. So i decided to setup an emergancy HT tank, with a HOB and airstone and pump. I took everything out of the tank, all the rock, to catch all the fish, a yellow tang, purple tang, purple fire fish, flame angel, farry wrasse and a couple damsels and a flame angel. I put them into the HT, which i used to sponge out of the DT and what ever it came with, no carbon, did a half does of cupramine to start. With in a hour the flame and yellow die, and now this morning the purple and fire fish are dead!!! *** i did a quick water change, ammonia was a little high, .25 or so, but not deadly like that. and when i test the copper it pretty much at 0 maybe .005 to .01.

*** :furious:!!!!

 

[bigdog0598]

oh also, the purple tang looked like all his purple was striped off this morning!!!!

 

[coralfish]

Ammonia is a fish killer. What were the nitrites & pH & temp? These all add the killing effect of ammonia. A factor also may be that the fish suffocated from infestations on their gills.

You say you used a sponge out of the DT. What does this mean, are you using a sponge filter for your DT filtration? Also, copper is gonna kill your bacteria.

 

[coralfish]

Also, are you using a QT prior to adding fish your DT?

 

[bigdog0598]

Didn't check nitrates. Ph is 8.2to8.4. Temp is 77. No I'm using a hob and where the carbon goes I put the spong plus I put the "bio ball" type media that came with it

 

[MCCOOL]

Like already stated, ammonia is very toxic to fish, even in small amounts. Sounds like the qt wasn't properly set up and given time to establish. Also, it's best to let the fish get acclimated to their new surrondings before dosing copper.

I'd continue to do large water changes to avoid any ammonia build up, and worry about the copper later. Ich shouldn't kill the fish immediately, unless they are very stressed.

 

[bigdog0598]

Should I just put carbon in and get what carbon is in out? Your right that it wasn't completely established but they were dying of ich. Like not making past the next few days.

So no more copper for awhile?

 

[jhentr]

Sorry for the lost. I would suspect to many fishes in the QT with ammonia spike. Also, two weeks of waiting might have further the decline of the fishes-making it too late for treatment.

 

[bigdog0598]

Make sense that the mandarin is still alive???? Do u think that the stress of catching them just fished them off with the ich

 

[MCCOOL]

Copper treatment is pretty stressful on the fish, and just compounds the problem in a situation like this, in my opinion. I'd focus on keeping the water in good shape and letting the fish settle in, before continuing treatment.

You can put some carbon in, sure. The water changes are going to remove most of the copper.

 

[nikesb]

sounds like you had no type of bacterial filtration in the ht

 

[coralfish]

First, Where's the mandarin?

I would:

1. Keep the HT tank set up for QT'ing your new fish additions LATER.
2. Take the copper out of the HT with carbon, you can run hypo-salinity OR you can add more later IF there is another outbreak of crypto with any fish you get later.
3. Leave the DT free of fish for approx 6 weeks (if you have corals or other inverts in it which won't allow you to raise the temp to speed up the crypto life cycle a little or to run hypo-salinity).
4 If the mandarin is in the DT, take him out and properly QT him (obviously you can't do this in the HT, without CAREFUL monitoring, as it is not established, but he does need to be QT'd)
5 You can run the DT & HT (QT) at hypo-salinity levels, as long as there are no inverts. This will also help to kill the crypto when it becomes free-swimming.

Hypo-salinity will require more acclimation time with new fish, depending on what the LFS SG is.

 

[coralfish]

Didn't check nitrates

I asked about nitrites.

Nitrates (there is a huge difference) has little effect (with proper water maintenance regiments) on a fish only tank.

 

[bigdog0598]

Everything is in the HT. I've read enough to know to keep the dt without fish. I plan on qt everything!!! Losing over 350 in 2 days will teach that.

What I'm saying is if the ammonia killed everything how the hell is the mandarin alive

 

[bigdog0598]

Didn't check nitrites. The disassembly started at 10pm. All in HT at 1am. Then the flame and yellow were dead by 2am but the purple was still swimming like normal. So they were flushed to fishy heaven then 8am I go check and both purples are dead

 

[Brickyardgreg]

Raising tank temp does nothing for the life cycle of crypt. While this is works with freshwater ich. Marine ich can only be eliminated by copper hypo salinity or a fallow tank for at least 8 weeks. There have been plenty of research on the subject. Search and thou shall find

 

[bigdog0598]

ok, question, now that i have carbon in, how long till i can use amquel? The only copper put in the tank was 3ml in 45 gallons last night, i added carbon about 2 hours ago?

 

[coralfish]

Raising tank temp does nothing for the life cycle of crypt

Sorry to differ with you, but:

from Advanced Aquarist's OnLine Magazine, AQUARIUM FISH by TERRY BARTELME, News from the Warfront with Cryptocaryon irritans
Part Two of Five:

"The life cycle of Cryptocaryon irritans is temperature dependant so an extended period of 72 days is highly unusual and can only occur in cooler waters. At “reef-type” temperatures the tomonts take from 3 to 28 days to excyst (hatch) with the peak between 4 and 8 days (Colorni, 1985). This variance may be a strategy for survival. However, after two weeks in the tomont stage the number of theronts produced and their ability to infect are greatly reduced (Colorni, 1992)."

"The life cycle of Cryptocaryon irritans is temperature dependent..." Also, from the same article, "Theront size varies with the isolate or variant of Cryptocaryon irritans, geographical location, host species and water temperature (Colorni & Burgess, 1997)"

Brickyardgreg, You might want to give it a read; I did search and I did find

 

[coralfish]

Brickyardgreg,

Also from Reef Culture Magazine:

"As Cryptocaryon is pathogenic at temperatures between 20°C and 30°C, lowering the temperature below 19°C will stop reproduction."

 

[coralfish]

Brickyardgreg,

And finally from breedersregistry.org

"The metabolic activity of Cryptocaryon is affected by the ambient temperature of the water. The warmer the water, the faster the parasite grows, thus speeding up all stages of the life cycle."