Help! Why did almost everything die!!!

coralfish is correct on all advice including raising the temperature. The life cycle of this parasite is interesting and is important to understand when evaluating a treatment. The stage where the parasite is attached to a fish is called a trophont. The trophont will spend three to seven days (depending on temperature) feeding on the fish and that is what you see symptomatically when you see "salt sprinkled on the fish". After that, the trophont leaves the fish and becomes what is called a protomont. This protomont travels to the substrate and begins to crawl around for usually two to eight hours, but it could go for as long as eighteen hours after it leaves it's fish host. Once the protomont attaches to a surface, it begins to encyst and is now called a tomont. Division inside the cyst into hundreds of daughter parasites, called tomites, begins shortly thereafter. This noninfectious stage can last anywhere from three to twenty-eight days. During this extended period, the parasite cyst is lying in wait for a host. After this period, the tomites hatch and begin swimming around, looking for a fish host. At this point, they are called theronts, and they must find a host within twenty-four hours or die. They prefer to seek out the skin and gill tissue, then transform into trophonts, and begin the process all over again. What this means is that when your tank is infected, you can actually see symptoms during a very small part of the life cycle, and it why your tank is infected even though your fish are resistant. It will also explain why symptoms come and go.

Many hobbyists are fooled into believing they have cured their fish of the parasites, only to find Ich present again on fish a few weeks later; a reason why following through with a full treatment protocol is so important. Don't make this mistake and be lulled into a false sense of security. The parasites may be in a stage where they are merely regrouping and multiplying for their "next offensive." In the wild, this sort of massive reproductive phase ensures that a few will find a suitable host to continue on the cycle. In the close confines of our aquariums, though, it means comparatively massive infection rates.

This disease is usually associated with several environmental triggers. Changes in water temperature, exposure to high levels of ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate, low pH levels, low dissolved oxygen often associated with overcrowding, are all factors contributing to the onset of the disease. You could lump all of these in a general category of "stress", but it is more appropriate to think of all of these as "unnatural conditions". In fact, Cryptocaryon irritans is rare in the wild even more unlikely to be lethal. Ich is truly a disease that exploits the conditions of captivity to reproduce and easily find suitable hosts.

By the way, trophonts are under the skin so cleaner wrasses and cleaner shrimp have no real effect on reducing this parasite.
 
Brickyardgreg,

And finally from breedersregistry.org

"The metabolic activity of Cryptocaryon is affected by the ambient temperature of the water. The warmer the water, the faster the parasite grows, thus speeding up all stages of the life cycle." :)

Totally correct. On a fallow tank, this will reduce the time until the parasite is eradicated. It does, however, reduce dissolved oxygen in the water which would be additional difficulty for any fish with cryptocaryon irritans in their gills.
 
I haven't scoured this whole thread, so sorry if I missed something. If you had a "serious" ich outbreak" and wasted two weeks hoping for a garlic miracle, your fish could all have been seriously compromised by the time you started treatment. When parasites, like ich, are seen----you need to start real treatment ASAP. For every white spot you see, how many parasites are in the gills, their favorite spot? Two weeks of heavy ich infestation is enough to kill most fish. But, quick treatment will save almost all of them. Mandarins have an incredible slime coat and are quite resistant to ich. (Not immune, however.) GARLIC, CLEANERS, OR UV,WILL NOT CURE ICH. EVER!!!!! I don't mean to sound harsh; but the number of fish lost to the "Garlic Cure-Alls" must be astonishing. If you run into another fish-life situation, consult good references by good authors. Books, sticky's on this forum, etc. If you are familiar with the ich life-cycle, as described by Snorvich above, garlic soaked food just doesn't make sense. The isn't your fault, the garlic cure is turning into the biggest fish-killing bit of mis-info in the hobby. IMO & IME; the folks who report success with garlic either aren't dealing with ich, or haven't waited long enough for it to show itself again. Which it will do in much larger numbers..
 
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At this point I would take any fish left to someone who already has a QT set up and established. Leave your tank fallow for eight weeks. I know some people say six but if your gonna go that far give it the extra two weeks. Also if you go all eight weeks with absolutely 0 fish there is no need to mess with your temperature. During the eight weeks get your QT going and established and start all over QTing everything from the begining and you wont have to go through this mess again. Not only that but you get the other added benefits to using a QT at the same time. Sorry for your losses and best of luck to you.
 
I haven't scoured this whole thread, so sorry if I missed something. If you had a "serious" ich outbreak" and wasted two weeks hoping for a garlic miracle, your fish could all have been seriously compromised by the time you started treatment. When parasites, like ich, are seen----you need to start real treatment ASAP. For every white spot you see, how many parasites are in the gills, their favorite spot? Two weeks of heavy ich infestation is enough to kill most fish. But, quick treatment will save almost all of them. Mandarins have an incredible slime coat and are quite resistant to ich. (Not immune, however.) GARLIC, CLEANERS, OR UV,WILL NOT CURE ICH. EVER!!!!!

I must agree. Garlic may increase the appetite of some fish.
 
Correct, Garlic will do NOTHING to treat crypto. UV will only kill (or injury) those organisms that come into contact with the light (and then only if the flow rates are VERY correct). And cleaner shrimp are JUST pretty, nothing more in crypto (ich) infestations.
 
a flame angel. I put them into the HT, which i used to sponge out of the DT and what ever it came with, no carbon, did a half does of cupramine to start. With in a hour the flame and yellow die, and now this morning the purple and fire fish are dead!!! *** i did a quick water change, ammonia was a little high, .25 or so, but not deadly like that. and when i test the copper it pretty much at 0 maybe .005 to .01.

*** :furious:!!!!
I commend you on trying to take quick action because sometimes when your fish are sick there is very little time. Unfortunately you have to also understand what's going on, so what I'd do next time is post on RC for guidance. Usually you can get a response fairly quickly. Fyi for the future Centropyge angels like your flame should not be treated at cupramine levels over 0.3 to 0.4 ppm. Since this is low, you have to take care that they don't fall below this during the treatment period.

I hope there's not a next time. :)
 
All of you are right. I thought maybe they could fight it off but nope. So I know no fish for 8 weeks and I have the qt running. My real question now is how long till I can use amquel?? Copper was at .005 then put carbon in this morning. When do you think I'll be able to use prime or amquel
 
I didn't post much. I have a thread in the disease thread which is what made me decide I have to do something and I picked curamine bc it was quicker and would help
Faster. Since the infection got pretty bad I thought quicker would help them more (don't mean dosing to quick). So when I get home well see if anything besides a damsels is left. All I have left is the mandarin and a fariy wrasse and 2 damsels
 
I didn't post much. I have a thread in the disease thread which is what made me decide I have to do something and I picked curamine bc it was quicker and would help
Faster. Since the infection got pretty bad I thought quicker would help them more (don't mean dosing to quick). So when I get home well see if anything besides a damsels is left. All I have left is the mandarin and a fariy wrasse and 2 damsels

Cupramine sure is my 1st choice; a SeaChem copper test kit should be used too, I think a test kit made by the same mfg as the med helps. IME, most copper tests are very hard to read. SeaChem has great tech support, don't hesitate to call and ask questions. (888-SEACHEM) I think tech support is really an underused resource for us. I've used Cupramine and a de-wormer in QT on almost all new fish for years and haven't seen a parasite in any of my tanks since I can remember. Good luck!
 
I must agree. Garlic may increase the appetite of some fish.

I think it may too; especially with the very rare Italian Trigger Fish, a notoriously reluctant feeder, and a fish that really does "swim with the fishes".
I also believe that Cyclops-eeze is a real turn-on for picky fish. I usually offer a bit, with the first feedings, of new fish in my QT. I also use a bit of it in the water when training a lion, or other new fish that's used to live food, to start stick feeding. I think it helps. This is just my experience: I can get behind one of my tanks, where the fish can't see me and go into feeding/begging mode.Then a I drop a tiny bit of the stuff into the tank (a 240). By the time I'm back in front of the tank, every fish, including the shyer ones are in full feeding frenzy mode. There isn't enough of the freeze-dried Cyclops-Eeze to even see, but the scent does something.
Of course,anything that helps a fish's appetite will help it fight with any ailment. If garlic does that, great! Just don't expect a good appetite to cure a parasite infestation.
 
I realize that means that the tank isn't fishless but mandarins are pretty resant and so is this wrasse. Just for a week until the qt is cycled
 
ok, well put them in the sump for now, knowing my luck, they'll be dead tonight....oh just means i start from scratch again....UHHHH!!!! Guess it gives me time to think of what fish to do again, so much for my angel coral tank...don't think i'm going to risk it again, oh well, i'll just try and load the tank up with coral for the next 8-10 weeks! My wife says i'm great at spending money! (she's been SO happy about this, new tank and everything dies ha)
 
ok, well put them in the sump for now, knowing my luck, they'll be dead tonight....oh just means i start from scratch again....UHHHH!!!! Guess it gives me time to think of what fish to do again, so much for my angel coral tank...don't think i'm going to risk it again, oh well, i'll just try and load the tank up with coral for the next 8-10 weeks! My wife says i'm great at spending money! (she's been SO happy about this, new tank and everything dies ha)

I hate to tell you this; many LFS have their coral tanks on the same water/filtration system as their fish tanks. Unless you're 100% sure that corals haven't shared the same water with fish for at least 8 weeks, I think they need to be QTd too. Corals (and other inverts) can't get ich, but they can carry forms of the parasite. Maybe not a huge chance, but do you want to take any chances at this point? I really think you'd do better by just letting your DT sit and read everything you can about this great hobby/addiction before you buy anything else.
 
I hate to tell you this; many LFS have their coral tanks on the same water/filtration system as their fish tanks. Unless you're 100% sure that corals haven't shared the same water with fish for at least 8 weeks, I think they need to be QTd too. Corals (and other inverts) can't get ich, but they can carry forms of the parasite. Maybe not a huge chance, but do you want to take any chances at this point? I really think you'd do better by just letting your DT sit and read everything you can about this great hobby/addiction before you buy anything else.

Good advice, but corals can be dipped and really should be prior to being put into the DT. Also, NEVER put any more water from the LFS into your tank than necessary. As it is nearly impossible to keep ANY LFS water from entering your system, Never just dump a fish or coral in allowing the LFS water to enter your system.
 
Good advice, but corals can be dipped and really should be prior to being put into the DT. Also, NEVER put any more water from the LFS into your tank than necessary. As it is nearly impossible to keep ANY LFS water from entering your system, Never just dump a fish or coral in allowing the LFS water to enter your system.

Will dipping rid coral of common parasites, in all stages? I thought Ich tomonts were almost bulletproof. I've been in SW for many years, but am still in the learning phase (8 yrs) when it comes to coral. I got the "QT everything" mentality from a real pro----not that she can't be wrong.
 
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