Help with 2 part

[FB]

Hello,

I made up the two part recipe number 2.

I have a 30 gal SPS tank

I tested my tank last night and got the following

Calcium - 420
Alk - 8.5 dKH
MG - 1200

I added 80 ml of Part 1 and Part 2.

I tested my tank again tonight and got the following

Calcium - 420
Alk - 7.5 dKH
MG - NT

The alk dopped by 1 dKH and my calcium appears to have stayed the same. So does this mean I should be adding 80 ml of part 1 and 100 ml of part 2.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

FB

 

[FB]

as per the dosage calculator http://reef.diesyst.com/

I added 120 ml of each and half cup of Epson Salt.

I now have the following

Calcium - 440
Alk - 10.5 dKH
Mag 1320

I will measure it again tomorrow night and see what we have.

Hopefully I can get this figured out.

FB

 

[jdieck]

Just keep trying by trial and error to adjust the amount, you might already noticed that Alkalinity variations are more sensitive than Calcium so try matching the additive to keep alkalinity constant and by addin the two parts in equal amounts the Calcium will take care of itself.
By those two sample periods it seems that you consumption will be around the 100 ml /day of each, just keep on tracking and adjusting if necessary then average whatever total amount you added over a week (divide it by 7) to get your daily addition going forward.

 

[FB]

I read the 2 part article again and it says not to keep measuring calcium just alk.

So to save test kits thats what I will do.

Alk - 8.0 dKH.

According to the calculator i'm going to add 100 ml of part 1 and part 2 to get it back up to 10.5 dKH.

This seems like a very rapid drop in Alk for 24 hours. No wonder my alk was always low.

 

[jdieck]

:thumbsup:

 

[PatMayo]

Epsom salt is not the best product to add long term. It adds something to the tank that is not beneficial. jdieck can explain more.

I buy a commercial product for magnesium additions.

Regards,

Pat

 

[jdieck]

Of course besides Calcium, Carbonate and Magnesium Ions lets say for simlicity sea water of course beside other ions also contains sodium, chloride and sulphate ions in a set proportion.
When we add a Calcium additive based on Calcium Chloride, we are not only adding Calcium Ions but also Chloride Ions.
Similarly when we add alkalinity supplements based on Sodium Carbonate or Sodium Bicarbonate, we are not only adding Carbonate but also Sodium.
When we add he Calcium and Alkalinity parts we will be adding salt (sodium and Chloride Ions) in other words salinity should increase.
When we add a Magnesium supplement based on Epsom Salts, (Magnesium Sulphate Hexahydrate) we will be adding also sluphate ions.
Because the amount of Sodium, Chloride and Sulphate ions is relatively large it will take a lot of supplement to really afect the balance, that is why shor term there is no significant effect but if large additions are required over a long period of time the Sulphate will increase in relation to Chloride and Sodium ions.
Howe bad is it or is it bad at all? Well as with anything in this hobby it is difficult to know.
In any case to minimize this effectthere is a couple of things that prevent problems.
First, your regular water changes help return the balance or postpone any efect for a long time.
Second, The improved DIY additive formula is made in a way that closely matches the same ratios of ions found in sea water, by replacing part of the Epsom Salts with Mag Flake which is Magnesium Chloride, the addition of Sulphate is reduced and Chloride increased to better match the overall balance.
Commercial Magnesium additives are usually a mix of both Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom) and Magnesium Chloride (Mag Flakes)

 

[PatMayo]

I couldn't have said it better myself. (And I mean that.)

Thanks

Pat

 

[jdieck]

:thumbsup:

 

[FB]

Alk 7.5

Added 100 ml of part 1 and part 2.

Is that much consumption normal.

I have 2 larger corals and about 8 frags.

FB

 

[PatMayo]

All tanks are different. I thought my tank used a lot, you can see my sig, but come to find out I had a lot precipitation in the tank. Mainly in the sump but it also was kind of insidious. I didn't understand how to recognize it. One way is that you pumps need frequent cleaning.

I did not have many corals either but quite a few more than you. Part of my problem is that the coralline algae is growing so quickly and it consumes a heck of lot of alk and calk.

Once I got the precipitation under control the usage of Randy's two part was reduced significantly. Plus I was dosing kalkwasser. I'm not saying that is what is happening to your tank, just be aware.

Watch for light dusting in your sump and on the inside of the glass. That is a telltale sign.

And I tested everyday and the tests confirmed that it was being used. It was being used alright, but it was being used by the heaters and pumps in the tank.

jdieck helped me out of my funk.

Good luck,

Regards,

Pat

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9479107#post9479107 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FB
Alk 7.5

Added 100 ml of part 1 and part 2.

Is that much consumption normal.

I have 2 larger corals and about 8 frags.

FB

That sounds about right for 30 gal of water and an increase of 3 dKh when using recipe 2.

Your Alkalinity drop 0.5 dKh in one day which is normal for a lightly stocked tank.
It can usually range from as low as 0.3 to as high as 2.5 or 3 dKh per day.

 

[FB]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9479214#post9479214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PatMayo
All tanks are different. I thought my tank used a lot, you can see my sig, but come to find out I had a lot precipitation in the tank. Mainly in the sump but it also was kind of insidious. I didn't understand how to recognize it. One way is that you pumps need frequent cleaning.

I did not have many corals either but quite a few more than you. Part of my problem is that the coralline algae is growing so quickly and it consumes a heck of lot of alk and calk.

Once I got the precipitation under control the usage of Randy's two part was reduced significantly. Plus I was dosing kalkwasser. I'm not saying that is what is happening to your tank, just be aware.

Watch for light dusting in your sump and on the inside of the glass. That is a telltale sign.

And I tested everyday and the tests confirmed that it was being used. It was being used alright, but it was being used by the heaters and pumps in the tank.

jdieck helped me out of my funk.

Good luck,

Regards,

Pat

After reading this last night I checked my Alk again it was @ 8.5 With the 100 ml it should have, according to the calculator, raised it to 10.5 So i'm obviously getting some precipitation. So I added an additional 30 ml of alk part only. I let it sit overnight and measured again this morning. I got a reading of 9.5. According to the calculator 38.5 ml will raise alk 1 dKH. So this looks perfect. I then added an additional 30 ml of part 1 and part 2.

Just a summary.

8:00pm alk 7.5 added 100 ml of part 1 and part 2.
11:30pm alk 8.5 added 30 ml of alk part only.
8:30 am alk 9.5 added 30 ml of part 1 and part 2.

I will check the alk when I get home tonight.

I'm having a real hard time understanding what all this means. So i have been checking my alk then using the calculator to determine the amount of the balanced to add.

Adding procedure.

I don't have a sump so I have been slowly pouring the alk part first into a high flow area. I wait about 1 minute for it to mix. Then I do the same with the calcium. I have been watching when mixing it into the tank and have noticed no obvious precipitation.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

FB


edit:

I just thought of something after reading the 2 part article again.

I used a "calcium chloride dehydrate" I just noticed that it says to use 20% less of this if it. I mixed it at 100% of the recipe. Could this be causing the problem?

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9481972#post9481972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FB

I'm having a real hard time understanding what all this means. So i have been checking my alk then using the calculator to determine the amount of the balanced to add.

Adding procedure.

I don't have a sump so I have been slowly pouring the alk part first into a high flow area. I wait about 1 minute for it to mix. Then I do the same with the calcium. I have been watching when mixing it into the tank and have noticed no obvious precipitation.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

FB


edit:

I just thought of something after reading the 2 part article again.

I used a "calcium chloride dehydrate" I just noticed that it says to use 20% less of this if it. I mixed it at 100% of the recipe. Could this be causing the problem?

This means nothing else that while you are adding it is also being consummed. So account for that when making your additions.
Your tests show you are reaching your target (Which I recommend to set at 10 dKh) so you are doing fine, Once at 10 you need to determine how much to add to keep it there. As per your postings considering the margin of error of the test kit your consumption is between 0.5 and 1 dkH per day so once you get your target you can start with a regular addition of around 35 ml/day to keep it there and adjust if you see a trend of Alkalinity slowly dropping then increase to 40 or increasing then drop to 30 ml/day.
Regarding the precipitation I would not worry about it. Using recipe 2 your chances of precipitation are nil or non existant if your alkalinity is below 12 and your PH below 8.4
The way you are adding it is fine but I would add the Calcium part first.
Finally on what did you used to make the mix.
Calcium Chloride di-hydrate is what dow flake is if that is whay=t you used then you are OK.
If you used Anyhdrous or Monohydrate then it only means that you will be increasing Calcium a bit more than Alkalinity (Which is not a bid deal short term unless your Calcium is already above 450 ppm) , if you already have the solution just add about 20 % more water to it.
In other words if you already have say 5 cups of the solution left. just add 3/4 to 1 more cup of RO/Di water to it.

 

[FB]

Alk 8.5

Will be adding 60 ml of part 1 and part 2

FB

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9489211#post9489211 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FB
Alk 8.5

Will be adding 60 ml of part 1 and part 2

FB

Well it seems you are getting close
You went from 9.5 then added 30 ml (which could have put it at around 10.3) then dropped to 8.5 so seems your consumption is around 1.5 which require around 75 ml/day in average.

Looking good.

Try tomorrow testing also your Calcium lets see if it has been maintained as well as it should.

 

[rdnyva]

Any particular reason to add the calc part first. I've been doing it the other way around with no problems, but I'm willing to learn if there's a better way.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9491384#post9491384 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rdnyva
Any particular reason to add the calc part first. I've been doing it the other way around with no problems, but I'm willing to learn if there's a better way.

Well it is just a sequence that I deem more logical. Say Magnesium prevents Calcium precipitation if Calcium is overdosed so when adding Magnesium, Calcium and Alkalinity I would first add the Magnesium then the Calcium so the new calcium increase does not create a precipitation with the Magnesium being corrected first and then at the end add the Alkalinity which in the case of formula 1 or other similar supplements that increase the PH will have also less of a chance of causing less precipitation as the Calcium and Magnesium dissolve faster.
In general this si just a preventive measure in case of an overdose the effect could be slightly reduced. If dosing normal amounts I doubt there will be any issues either way.

 

[RobbyG]

jdieck you look like a Natural to take over from Randy But don't worry, after you do another 43,000 Posts we will let you retire also :lol:

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9492040#post9492040 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RobbyG
jdieck you look like a Natural to take over from Randy But don't worry, after you do another 43,000 Posts we will let you retire also :lol:

Sound like an echo from my boss's words