Help with Kalkwasser

[Tenshoa]

So I have scoured the internet for what I want and cannot find any real information. Up until today, I have been dosing 2 part with a dosing pump. I have heard many great things about Kalk so I decided to buy some.

However, the only methods that I can find anywhere are through the ATO reservoir (most common), through a reactor, or manually.

I am not OPPOSED to dosing through my ATO. However, my ATO replenishes roughly 1 gallon per day using a maxi-jet pump. That is, a decent gush once or twice per day. It is my understanding that Kalk should NOT be added in lump amounts like this, which contradicts pretty much every article or posts that claims that this is the best way. That is, unless there is some other type of pump they are using, NONE of which are mentioned in any of these articles.

Because of my concern for overdosing, I thought it better to dose through my dosing pump. I cannot seem to find any articles on dosing in this manner, and more importantly HOW TO START dosing this way so that I don't begin dosing too little or too much.

In addition, I would like to increase my PH as well. However, every article I have read has said not to raise PH by more than .02. Since mine is at 7.8, I WANT to raise this. Should I use a buffer first?

Also, how long does it take for the PH to be affected? In other words, at what intervals should I test the PH while adding?

Any info would be a great help. Thanks!

 

[txaggie09]

The maxijet will probably be too powerful, depending on the model. I dose kalk with an aqualifter pump which is roughly 220ml/min. And even with that rate, i can see a noticable spike in pH on my apex. Not enough that I'm worried about it but it is there. I would look into getting an aqualifter or similar pump (dosing pumps are also a good option if the flow is enough).

I got tired of mixing kalk and top off water so I ordered a reactor from avast marine, I should get it tomorrow. Hope to get it built this weekend and get it running next week.

I cant help you with the pH issue, but I am tagging along as I am interested in that as well

 

[Tenshoa]

The maxijet will probably be too powerful, depending on the model. I dose kalk with an aqualifter pump which is roughly 220ml/min. And even with that rate, i can see a noticable spike in pH on my apex. Not enough that I'm worried about it but it is there. I would look into getting an aqualifter or similar pump (dosing pumps are also a good option if the flow is enough).

I got tired of mixing kalk and top off water so I ordered a reactor from avast marine, I should get it tomorrow. Hope to get it built this weekend and get it running next week.

I cant help you with the pH issue, but I am tagging along as I am interested in that as well

Yeah. That's what I'm worried about with the ATO, is PH spikes. I have been using a medical pump for dosing A & B. However, if I dose Kalk with it, based on the fact that people who are using it in their ATO and replenishing a gallon per day, it seems to me that I would need to either increase it concentration through a dosing pump or crank up the dosing pump to pump the equivalent of 1 gallon, which is just silly to me.

Theoretically, if 1 gallon (with 1 teaspoon of kalk) is what most people are adding daily, then I would need to dose 3,785ml of mixed kalk to equal that. But if I added 4 teaspoons per gallon, then I would need 946ml per day or 39ml per hour, which seems a bit more reasonable. The problem is, I don't know if this theory holds true or if there are variables that I don't know about.

 

[txaggie09]

You can only add 2 tsp per gallon of water unless you use vodka or vinegar which adds its own issues. I dont know why you think that increasing the amount of kalk will reduce the amount you need to add. If youre losing a gallon of water to evaporation then you will need to add a gallon back.

take the BRS dosing pump for example, 50 ml/min. That would need to run for roughly 75 min to add your gallon of water lost to evaporation. Thats pretty reasonable.

I have a 1.1 ml/min dosing pump running 24/7. It adds about 0.5 gal/day. The rest lost to evaporation is replenished by my ato pump. I found this to be a slightly more stable way for my tank in regards to pH. Once I get the reactor I will probably look for a dosing pump in the 50 ml/min range and let it handle everything.

 

[Tenshoa]

You can only add 2 tsp per gallon of water unless you use vodka or vinegar which adds its own issues. I dont know why you think that increasing the amount of kalk will reduce the amount you need to add. If youre losing a gallon of water to evaporation then you will need to add a gallon back.

take the BRS dosing pump for example, 50 ml/min. That would need to run for roughly 75 min to add your gallon of water lost to evaporation. Thats pretty reasonable.

I have a 1.1 ml/min dosing pump running 24/7. It adds about 0.5 gal/day. The rest lost to evaporation is replenished by my ato pump. I found this to be a slightly more stable way for my tank in regards to pH. Once I get the reactor I will probably look for a dosing pump in the 50 ml/min range and let it handle everything.

So you're saying to get rid of my ATO entirely and have ONLY the dosing pump do the work of replenishing my evaporation as well? The reason I mentioned increasing the the amount of Kalk, was so that the dosing pump (kalk) maintained it's effectiveness while the ATO continued to top off the water as normal. I didn't think it would reduce the amount I needed to add, whether it be kalk or water, by any means. I was simply delegating a function to each piece of equipment.

 

[txaggie09]

So you're saying to get rid of my ATO entirely and have ONLY the dosing pump do the work of replenishing my evaporation as well? The reason I mentioned increasing the the amount of Kalk, was so that the dosing pump (kalk) maintained it's effectiveness while the ATO continued to top off the water as normal. I didn't think it would reduce the amount I needed to add, whether it be kalk or water, by any means. I was simply delegating a function to each piece of equipment.

Gotcha. And yes, I was suggesting only use ro/di/kalk water for top off, instead of having a kalk top off and an ro/di top off.
In case youre curious, using a reactor keeps a saturated mix at all times. The water from your ro/di top off goes into the reactor, through the slurry, and into the tank. This means that it almost always doses a saturated kalk mix.

Without a reactor you simply mix 2 tsp/gal of water max (can use less if you want), let it settle out over a few hours and then use that water as your auto top off water. I thought this would be easiest, but its kind of a pain having to mix water ever time you need to add top off water to your reservoir.

Both situations will replace all of your evaporated water. Keep track of your calcium and alk levels, If they get too high, cut down on the amount of kalk you mix into the water. In most cases, if you have a high demand (sps) tank then kalk wont keep these levels high enough so its really not much to worry about. But if you dont have a high demand, they can rise too high.

 

[Imjustgud]

I agree that the Maxijet pump is too strong and push too much from your ATO. I also use an aqua lifter. This has been perfect for me for the last year and a half. Too much Kalkwasser will risk a spike in your pH.

Keep it simple. I recommend not adding another piece of equipment when you can double up.

 

[Tenshoa]

The problem I have with using the ATO for Kalk is the risk of the float switch sticking, which HAS happened to me once. I assume that a reactor would not have any fail-safes, short of using a controller?

The problem I have with using the dosing pump to replenish the evaporated water is the distance between my water source and the pump itself. It seems like it would be a lot of work at that distance for the dosing pump to pump that far. If I were able to dose smaller portions with equal concentrations, then I could fit a much smaller container in my tank cabinet. In fact, I'd have to look up in my paperwork as to what the max distance is for this pump as I am not sure if it's even capable of drawing from a source that far.

 

[txaggie09]

A peristaltic pump like dosing pumps can pull from quite a distance, and push the water even more. I dont know how far youre talking about so it may not be feasible anyway. I see your point though, without a controller it is tough.

And you are correct, as far as I know the reactors have no fail safe (in the same way as an auto top off) without a controller. I have redundant switches on my Apex to prevent/reduce incidents.

Another topic for another day, I HIGHLY suggest looking into getting a controller. I bought the full apex. I put it off for about 6 months due to the price but I can say without a doubt it is an awesome piece of equipment. I wont run a tank without a controller now. Its one of those things that once you have it, you dont know how you ever got by without it before.

Another thing about kalk, it is not meant to raise Ca, Alk, or pH but merely to keep them steady. If you can get your levels to where you want them then you could set up a small container of saturated kalk (2tsp/gal) and dose enough to keep your levels steady. The only way to figure this volume would be to test your water and adjust as you go. If you hit a point where you cant keep up with a container that will fit under your tank, then you may want to look into a calcium reactor or other options.

 

[Imjustgud]

I had issues due to distance initially. I also made a mistake where the end of the tubing from the pump was lower than some of the reservoir. Once I added PVC pipe that extended higher than the reservoir and trimmed the tubing from the aqua lifter, this worked like a dream.

I do worry about the switch getting stuck. I plan on replacing mine soon. I also plan on adding a controller soon. I'm planning to create a routine that watches if the pump runs for 45 seconds and automatically turns it off.

 

[Tenshoa]

A peristaltic pump like dosing pumps can pull from quite a distance, and push the water even more. I dont know how far youre talking about so it may not be feasible anyway. I see your point though, without a controller it is tough.

And you are correct, as far as I know the reactors have no fail safe (in the same way as an auto top off) without a controller. I have redundant switches on my Apex to prevent/reduce incidents.

Another topic for another day, I HIGHLY suggest looking into getting a controller. I bought the full apex. I put it off for about 6 months due to the price but I can say without a doubt it is an awesome piece of equipment. I wont run a tank without a controller now. Its one of those things that once you have it, you dont know how you ever got by without it before.

Another thing about kalk, it is not meant to raise Ca, Alk, or pH but merely to keep them steady. If you can get your levels to where you want them then you could set up a small container of saturated kalk (2tsp/gal) and dose enough to keep your levels steady. The only way to figure this volume would be to test your water and adjust as you go. If you hit a point where you cant keep up with a container that will fit under your tank, then you may want to look into a calcium reactor or other options.

I will definitely look into the controllers some more. My calcium and alk have been holding steady using my 2 part for quite a while now. Calcium at 470 and Alk at 7.8-8. My PH has been a little odd lately though. When I first started this tank, I was consistently at 7.8. Nothing could change it. Not even buffers (and I had tried a lot). I had even baffled several of the LFS as we exhausted every possible cause. Then out of no where, it just started reading 8.4 consistently and had stayed way for quite a while until recently. And I am baffled as to why it is back to 7.8 again but it has been for about 4 weeks now. I was hoping that the Kalk might help this issue in addition to its other benefits.

The dosing pump I am using isn't actually a "pump" as much as it is mechanical. It is the same dosing pumps the local hospitals use and is from reefdosingpumps.com. The mechanical wheel turns and pushes fluid by "pinching" the tubing to push and pull fluid. It can be adjusted up to 300ml per hour. I just don't want to have to mix this stuff every day or two in order to feed it through the dosing pump.

 

[Tenshoa]

I had issues due to distance initially. I also made a mistake where the end of the tubing from the pump was lower than some of the reservoir. Once I added PVC pipe that extended higher than the reservoir and trimmed the tubing from the aqua lifter, this worked like a dream.

I do worry about the switch getting stuck. I plan on replacing mine soon. I also plan on adding a controller soon. I'm planning to create a routine that watches if the pump runs for 45 seconds and automatically turns it off.

That makes another good point.

 

[txaggie09]

The dosing pump I am using isn't actually a "pump" as much as it is mechanical. It is the same dosing pumps the local hospitals use and is from reefdosingpumps.com. The mechanical wheel turns and pushes fluid by "pinching" the tubing to push and pull fluid. It can be adjusted up to 300ml per hour. I just don't want to have to mix this stuff every day or two in order to feed it through the dosing pump.

If you dont want to constantly mix you could get a reactor and use a small reservoir to pump water though it and into your tank. The reactor (or at least the avast one) only needs to be refilled every two weeks. No mixing, just add kalk and let it do its thing. You could keep your other auto top off system running and set this up to run however much you want it to a day.
Its kind of a complicated system as opposed to just running a reactor and running all your top of water though it, but it sounds like it would be what youre looking for

 

[Tenshoa]

So this is what I ended up deciding to do for the time being. And I know it's not perfect, but for now it will have to do. But before I explain, I have to say that after considering switching to an aqualifter, I can't say that I see the benefit of topping off water with a maxi-jet in 10 seconds, or an aqualifter in 5 minutes. I have my doubts that there would be any significant effect on the corals in regards to the rate at which the kalk is introduced in the difference of that time span.

I have decided to move my dosing pump closer to my top off reservoir (not really what I wanted to do, but for now, ok), and dose at a rate of 70ish ml per hour (or until I can get an accurate number nailed down). My ATO still hooked to the same reservoir, would finish the job for any remaining water loss due to evaporation. Especially since the amount of daily evaporation is a variable. That way, the amount of top off water (and kalk introduction) is mitigated through the ATO, since the dosing pump has already done much of the work. Theoretically, this should eliminate the possibility of PH spikes.

On a completely different note...

txaggie, I am trying to justify the expense of a controller. They have a lot of features on them, but very few that I need. My lights are already automated and have a controller built into them with variable channels and time increments of 30 minutes. My powerheads are already run by their own controller for wavemaking. I have a thermometer already. I don't use ozone. I don't have an ethernet cable near my fish tank, nor will I be putting one there. So that leaves PH. But I can't justify spending several hundred dollars on something that only measure my PH when I check it manually fairly frequently. Can you offer some more advice on why I should have one? Sell me on it! lol

 

[DavidinGA]

I run an Aqualifter in my ato that I keep filled with a half rate of kalk (1tsp per gal) and it works great.

First off by running half rate kalk I keep pH changes to a minimum. Then I also keep my airline clean and flowing longer (it's gonna clog eventually no matter what but it lasts longer this way). Then lastly, should my float switch fail (plus my secondary backup would have to fail in my setup) this weaker solution of kalk won't be as harmful.

 

[Tenshoa]

I run an Aqualifter in my ato that I keep filled with a half rate of kalk (1tsp per gal) and it works great.

First off by running half rate kalk I keep pH changes to a minimum. Then I also keep my airline clean and flowing longer (it's gonna clog eventually no matter what but it lasts longer this way). Then lastly, should my float switch fail (plus my secondary backup would have to fail in my setup) this weaker solution of kalk won't be as harmful.

But will it be enough to maintain my calcium and alkalinity?

Also, how did you hook up the backup float switch?

 

[DavidinGA]

But will it be enough to maintain my calcium and alkalinity?

Also, how did you hook up the backup float switch?

Sorry I must have skipped the part where you wanted to rely on just kalk for cal and alk; probably not the best plan as that's not really what kalk is for.


Here is a pic of my ato float (in the water) and the dry backup. I got it from autotopoff dot com.

 

[Tenshoa]

Sorry I must have skipped the part where you wanted to rely on just kalk for cal and alk; probably not the best plan as that's not really what kalk is for.


Here is a pic of my ato float (in the water) and the dry backup. I got it from autotopoff dot com.

What do you use it for? Every article on Kalk that I have read and person that I have spoken with indicates that this is what to use to maintain calcium and alkalinity. And the Kalk that I have even has magnesium added to it.

Take this article for example:

http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/why-kalk-is-king-in-the-saltwater-tank-additive-world/
and
http://www.mrsaltwatertank.com/how-to-use-kalk-safely-and-effectively-in-your-tank/

How do you have your backup switch wired? Does it cut power to the top off pump?

 

[DavidinGA]

I said kalk isn't really used for alk/cal because for most tanks it can't keep up with alk/cal demand; its better used for helping to maintain alk/cal levels, maintain stability in those levels, and to help keep pH up.


http://autotopoff.com/products/DS1/

That's what I have and love it. I have had zero problems with it.

If water lifts the top float it will kill power to your ato pump.

 

[Tenshoa]

I said kalk isn't really used for alk/cal because for most tanks it can't keep up with alk/cal demand; its better used for helping to maintain alk/cal levels, maintain stability in those levels, and to help keep pH up.


http://autotopoff.com/products/DS1/

That's what I have and love it. I have had zero problems with it.

If water lifts the top float it will kill power to your ato pump.

Ah ok. I see what you're saying now. I was wondering that myself. Whether or not it would be enough to support my consumption. I imagine that this will take some time to dial in between the kalk and the proper amount to dose. Are you using A & B as your secondary?

Thank you for that link though. That is exactly what I was looking for. I need to order one of those.

Also, do you see any PH spikes at all running your kalk through the ato, when it tops off?