Help with new tank cycling

[dweyant]

Need some help. Wife and I setup a new tank after being out of the hobby for about 15 years. Did a lot of research on what has changed.
We have a 24x48x24 tank with a 35 gallon sump.
It is stocked with about 1.5 inches of "live" sand, and a decent bit of dry "live" rock.
We got everything setup, and use a (dead) shrimp) to cycle the tank. Between the cycling, and a vacation it was about 6 weeks beffore we decided to put anything in the tank. LFS analyzed the water and said everything was fine.
We purchase two small (about 1 inch) clown fish, and a blenny. The One of the clown fish disappeared within 24 hours, the other was swimming at the top of the tank. He made it about four days then disappeared (assume both dead).
That was two weeks ago. Really don't want to kill more fish, but not sure what to do.
Here are the tank parameters. I'm using a Neptune Apex for ORP and PH, Hannah For Alkalinity Nitrate and Phosphate.
Alk 8.1
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Phosphate .12
PH 8.01
ORP 225
Phosphate was .36 on 7/20. I've been doing water changes and it has dropped down to the current .12
Thoughts?
Thanks!

 

[wvned]

Fish don't care about much but ammonia, a pH of over 7.5 and super high nitrates.
Got some flow going?
Is your temperature controlled and stable.
How did you acclimate them to the new tank?

 

[Uncle99]

Many times, our display water has a higher salinity than the LFS.
Adding fish into higher salinity’s is stressful on fish in terms of resipiration, so acclimating takes several hours to accomplish. When receiving shipped fish, once the bag is open, PH rises making ammonia more toxic and in some cases, burns the gills. This is usually unfixable. Fish like this usually pop at the top as if struggling to breath. Fill covers may be red.

To avoid that float bags for 30 minutes for temp. Once open, fish goes into salinity, equal or less than bag water.
I would not push salinity upwards more than .002 per day.

 

[wvned]

and I completely disagree with that, and have never taken more than 45 minutes to acclimate a fish.

 

[AZBigJohn]

Well, I sit right between these two.

First of all, welcome back to the hobby!

My first though is the LFS. How well do you know them, and any idea how long the clowns were in their care? For both clowns to die, but I assume the blenny is okay, seems a little suspect.

I would definitely ask where they keep their specific gravity at. It is not unheard for stores to keep their SG low on fish only tanks to keep fish from displaying parasitic infections. I also do not like to jump fish up tooo high, too fast, and if there is a big gap, I use a holding tank set to the store's SG, and raise it over a few days, based on fish reaction. Once again, if blenny is doing fine, I doubt that is the cause. Have you looked for any tank jumpers? For a fish to "disappear" without a trace with very little to eat them seems odd, as well.

I'm sorry for the rough start back in, but welcome back!

 

[Uncle99]

and I completely disagree with that, and have never taken more than 45 minutes to acclimate a fish.

Depends on species, how long bagged and with what water volume.
Longer acclimatization is certainly not a negative.
Ammonia becomes toxic to fish at .25ppm and when PH depressed, (bag opened) even lower.
This is the condition that occurs during transport over a day or two in a closed bag.

 

[wvned]

Depends on species, how long bagged and with what water volume.
Longer acclimatization is certainly not a negative.
Ammonia becomes toxic to fish at .25ppm and when PH depressed, (bag opened) even lower.
This is the condition that occurs during transport over a day or two in a closed bag.

Which is why dumping half the water out of the bag and replacing it with tank water is important. It raises the pH back up. If I am told a fish is being shipped in some ridiculously low salinity like 1.012 I will acclimate longer. These days I don't buy fish from people that sell fish like that.
I have found getting fish out of the bag and into a healthy tank to be the single best thing I can do for them.
I usually float them in the tank for 15 minutes and then change 1/2 the water in the bag 3 times and release them. The water in the bag goes in too.
I do not do this sometimes with shrimp and some inverts. I drip acclimate them in a bucket but no more than an hour to 1 1/2 hours. They do not usually come in low salinity water however. With them I think it is more a difference in the other water components that matters like nitrates.
Most if not all of the things dissolved in our water cause osmotic pressure.

 

[griss]

And the discussion above is why I always say there is no one right way to do things in this hobby. I have a lot of respect for everyone who responded and all have different views of how things should be done and all are successful in the hobby.

 

[wvned]

I am a firm believer in it's your tank, do what you think is best.

 

[VWD]

I worked in retail and also did aquarium maintenance for a number of years of years. In my opinion fish aren’t as sensitive to salinity change as many believe. It happens all the time in the wild .
I haven’t acclimated a fish in over 20 years with great success. When a shipment came in we float the bags to get temp the same then cut open pour though a net and place in tank . The same when bring a fish to clients house.
Either something is off in your tank or something already wrong either way fish. Not sure where you sourced you fish from and if from lfs how long they had in shop before putting out for sale. Sometimes fish just can’t handle anymore stress.
But I have bred seahorses and shipped them in the past and recommend temp acclimate and then place in tank and discard the shipping water. Way better success that way for me.
This is all my opinion after many years in the hobby.

Your perimeter is all look good and I wouldn’t think that any of that is the problem. I’ll be looking at navy possibility low oxygen levels need more flow or some other toxic plane getting in the tank.

 

[rrrrob]

Have you moved since the last time you had a tank (i.e., water quality change)?

 

[brandon429]

What we recommend to new keepers should be streamlined. Just because many fish tolerate osmotic shock very well doesn't mean we recommend that.
.002 per day max is smart for new keepers because they're already breaking rules (importing disease right off the bat, zero preventions in place)

You can rule out cycling issues here and with any other tank, fish don't die from cycling issues though that's the #1 cause attributed in our hobby. I bet we could search the last ten years from any reef board ( done it already ) and find not one loss attributed to cycling (although with api kits leading the way with nh4 readings hardly anyone will agree)

I vote osmotic shock #1 here, disease second likely

 

[wvned]

LOL
I certainly recommend doing things they tolerate well over the ones they dont.