Help with SPS color

I am going to continue with what I am doing now which is just running the basics, skimmer, live rock, light. Not adding anything to the tank just like EC suggested. I am going to slowly remove the DSB. I am trying to figure out a look I want with my rock work and I think I found one in Best SPS tanks thread here on RC. I will eventually buy the rock needed and cycle it before adding to my tank. Not only do I believe the Xenia could be part of the problem I hate it and I want it gone and there is only one way to kill it that I can see. Once I replace the rock in the tank, I will acid wash it and have it for an upgarde if it happens! How does this sound?
 
I did fianlly manage to get a picture of one of my SPS corals that led me to think at first that I had to much light and I wanted to post it. I had made a few refences to the fact that one side of my SPS is a lot lighter on one side than the underside. Lights are off in this pic

white-M.jpg
 
A frogspawn is one of the most hardiest corals out there. Something is seriously wrong with the water.

Three others beside it they are all fine, I think my diamond gobie was some of the cause, yesterday it was buried and I pulled it out of the sand half didn't look good and today its a skeloton
 
I love all the information but I am confused on a couple things. I have been out of the hobby a few years but came back 7 months ago and have a sps dominated reef.

The whole carbon dosing thing and vodka dosing and pellets and all that was not happening a few years back when I left. So that is new to me, but it seems these things cause more problems than good.

The other thing is there are many many tanks out there that have zero N03 and P04 that run amazing sps systems. In fact zero P04 and N03 were the best ways to run these systems through the berlin method or through a refugium. I mean look back through past years TOTM threads and see.

Now were saying to run some nitrates and phosphates...? I dont get it. I have pretty good color on my reef, could it be better, yes definetly. But I still have color. I believe it has to do with lighting and how corals are acclimated to it and what type of lighting you use and at what spectrum. I always ran halides and got good color with zero N03 and P04. I now run t-5's, and the color seems a bit more pastel looking, Definetly not as rich and deep as with Halides. I have read studies that feeding you corals will result in better growth and color, but you have to keep nutrients low and in balance. A good skimmer will help with this. Feed your fish! Remember, on a natural reef there is zero N03 and P04, but plenty of food. Its about a good balance of these things IMO. Dont forget a natural reef gets blasted with sunlight, however its also very cloudy most of the time and it rains alot so there are days with no sunlight. My photo period is 5 hrs 45 minutes.
 
If you don;t think it's the light that's bleaching you corals. Which I think it is. Too long photoperiod, too clear water. too close to the water surface etc. If not, then I would be removing all of you xenia. Xenia can pull alot of nutrients out of the water column.

Lack of nutrients plus intense light will cause coral to lose there colours.

I lower the light from 6" to 4 inch and in about 1 weeks time I was experience bleaching.
 
I love all the information but I am confused on a couple things. I have been out of the hobby a few years but came back 7 months ago and have a sps dominated reef. What worked back then still works today. You have the benefit of knowing what has worked for you before, and it should work the same now, for the most part. Some of the equipment has changed but what were solid methods in 2004 are still solid methods in 2013.

The whole carbon dosing thing and vodka dosing and pellets and all that was not happening a few years back when I left. So that is new to me, but it seems these things cause more problems than good. I have been carbon dosing since 2005, it isn't new but it's use has grown a lot.

The other thing is there are many many tanks out there that have zero N03 and P04 that run amazing sps systems. In fact zero P04 and N03 were the best ways to run these systems through the berlin method or through a refugium. I mean look back through past years TOTM threads and see. One important difference is back then we did not have testing methods commonly available with a high enough resolution. Most of us used Salifert or other titration tests, if it read zero we knew it really wasn't zero but it was close enough. In reality our actual numbers could have been 0 to .09, we really didn't know as accurately as we do today.

Now were saying to run some nitrates and phosphates...? I dont get it. I have pretty good color on my reef, could it be better, yes definetly. But I still have color. I believe it has to do with lighting and how corals are acclimated to it and what type of lighting you use and at what spectrum. As lighting increases, so should food.I always ran halides and got good color with zero N03 and P04. I now run t-5's, and the color seems a bit more pastel looking, Definetly not as rich and deep as with Halides. I have read studies that feeding you corals will result in better growth and color, but you have to keep nutrients low and in balance. A good skimmer will help with this. Feed your fish! Remember, on a natural reef there is zero N03 and P04, but plenty of food. Its about a good balance of these things IMO. I agree completely. This is a fair representation of how a Zeo system works, low nutrients and plenty of food for the corals. One of the biggest issues people face is how to get enough food for the corals and still keep the no3 and po4 in check. Carbon dosing can do this but it can also remove too many nutrients which will lead to pale corals. It's the same problem with pellets, the mfg's recommend far more than are actually needed, I had the same problem in early 2010, too many pellets and everything began to suffer. Once I removed the majority of them from the reactor things improved and I was able to figure out how much to run and still keep the corals from starving. Finding the level of no3 and po4 that your tank likes is the key. It isn't the same number for all of us and our tanks process nutrients differently. For my tank no3 of about 5 and po4 of .04 to .07 works best. It may be different for someone else's tank.
 
I have cut the lights back to all 6 for 5 hours and will try that for a few weeks and see what happens, along with just running basics
 
If you don;t think it's the light that's bleaching you corals. Which I think it is. Too long photoperiod, too clear water. too close to the water surface etc. If not, then I would be removing all of you xenia. Xenia can pull alot of nutrients out of the water column.

Lack of nutrients plus intense light will cause coral to lose there colours.

I lower the light from 6" to 4 inch and in about 1 weeks time I was experience bleaching.

I've been following this thread as I have the same issues as Kissman. I also have a ton of Xenia. I have read that Xenia will only thrive in low nutrient environments and I've read that will only thrive in high nutrient tanks. I'm am going to get rid of some of it as it is taking over.
 
I don't think Xenia survive if you add them to a ULN system. I think they strip a nutrient rich system making you think its ULN
 
I love all the information but I am confused on a couple things. I have been out of the hobby a few years but came back 7 months ago and have a sps dominated reef.

The whole carbon dosing thing and vodka dosing and pellets and all that was not happening a few years back when I left. So that is new to me, but it seems these things cause more problems than good.

The other thing is there are many many tanks out there that have zero N03 and P04 that run amazing sps systems. In fact zero P04 and N03 were the best ways to run these systems through the berlin method or through a refugium. I mean look back through past years TOTM threads and see.

Now were saying to run some nitrates and phosphates...? I dont get it. I have pretty good color on my reef, could it be better, yes definetly. But I still have color. I believe it has to do with lighting and how corals are acclimated to it and what type of lighting you use and at what spectrum. I always ran halides and got good color with zero N03 and P04. I now run t-5's, and the color seems a bit more pastel looking, Definetly not as rich and deep as with Halides. I have read studies that feeding you corals will result in better growth and color, but you have to keep nutrients low and in balance. A good skimmer will help with this. Feed your fish! Remember, on a natural reef there is zero N03 and P04, but plenty of food. Its about a good balance of these things IMO. Dont forget a natural reef gets blasted with sunlight, however its also very cloudy most of the time and it rains alot so there are days with no sunlight. My photo period is 5 hrs 45 minutes.

0 on a test kit is fine. 0.00 is not fine! There is a big difference between the two. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php
 
If you don;t think it's the light that's bleaching you corals. Which I think it is. Too long photoperiod, too clear water. too close to the water surface etc. If not, then I would be removing all of you xenia. Xenia can pull alot of nutrients out of the water column.

Lack of nutrients plus intense light will cause coral to lose there colours.

I lower the light from 6" to 4 inch and in about 1 weeks time I was experience bleaching.


Exactly! Too much light and Ultra ultraLNS is a bad thing.
 
OK. Here's the deal.

1. This is a unique situation, take advice from those that have been in this situation before.
I have. I ran ULNS, barebottom and bio-pellets and it took me a couple of months to figure it out.

2. Water changes - will exacerbate the problem, especially larges ones. I am not saying don't especially if your phosphates are increasing. Perhaps instead of 10% do 5% WC/weekly.

3. If your running bio-pellets - lower your useage 25% - 50%.

4. Add to your bio-load. Go get two/three small/medium sized fish (chromis would be good) wait a week and then retest. If nothing, add one to two more. You can add which ever fish you want Chromis are just a cheap addition.
 
OK. Here's the deal.

1. This is a unique situation, take advice from those that have been in this situation before.
I have. I ran ULNS, barebottom and bio-pellets and it took me a couple of months to figure it out.

2. Water changes - will exacerbate the problem, especially larges ones. I am not saying don't especially if your phosphates are increasing. Perhaps instead of 10% do 5% WC/weekly.

3. If your running bio-pellets - lower your useage 25% - 50%.

4. Add to your bio-load. Go get two/three small/medium sized fish (chromis would be good) wait a week and then retest. If nothing, add one to two more. You can add which ever fish you want Chromis are just a cheap addition.


I am actually not running anything or dosing anything. It was suggested by a few people to return to the basics. Just run skimmer, lights and live rock. I am running just that. I was carbon dosing vinegar and i guess over dosed and thats what got me here. I stopped that back in Dec. I have thought about adding 3 more Chromis however I believe with the Xenia that I have in the all I will do is fuel its growth by adding more fish? I have bought some Sodium Nitrate to dose but I have not doesed any. I would love to, but i want to try running just the basics for a while like a few people have suggested. I would actually love for my NO3 to be at 1-2ppm at the moment my PO4 is 29ppb. which is as high as I would want it to go. However I will not run anything unless I start getting a lot of algae. I use to do two 5g water changes a week and have been doing a 5g water change every Sun. maybe I will drop that back to every other Sunday. I have started to slowly remove my sand bed as I do water chnages as of this morning. I am also toying with the idea of replacing my live rock to get rid of the dang Xenia. I really believe the Xenia is about 70% of my problem. However as some have suggested it could be the DSB if thats the problem the Xenia could be saving me from a crash? If so once I remove the sand bed maybe the Xenia would die off.....
 
Kissman,
You are constantly changing too many things. Stick to the basics, and your tank will come back. I would not pull out the rock and sand unless tests warrant it to do so. Too many phosphates and too many nitrates.
I would keep the course and give it time. Also, boosting bacteria levels in a tank that does not need it is a waste. Totally useless. You need to find the balance. The balance for my tank is: Feed enough to see phosphates and nitrates rise up a bit from zero.
Then I get colors and good growth. No vodka dosing or pellets. I dont need them. NO REACTORS unless needed. They strip everyhting out of the water.
As the water dirtys up a bit, you may need to increase lighting some. But let the corals start to lose color and turn brown to tell you that. mYou should be getting a nice film of algae on the glass every 2-3 days. That you have to clean off.
That's one way I can tell my tank is dialed in. I agree with what adrnlrsh has posted too. You gota feed that tank!
 
I also had a DSB in my sump btw. I didn't touch it. Just added fish. I don't think Xenia will be able to consume everything. I think you need to increase it regardless of the Xenia, you can always remove the Xenia (pruning) later.
 
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