Help with upgrade tank Dimensions.

[maroun.c]

Hi,
benn thinking for weeks and couldn't come to a final decision
Current tank is a 150G 70x22x24
I find this tank very thin and very short so scaping was always an issue.
for new tank length is fixed to 80 inches and can go up to 34 inches front to back and 32 inches high.
Tank will be similar to inwall but have around 8-10 inches protruding from the front to give a 3D effect so while front to back won't be really visible from the side I'd like it to be very deep to give more 3D feeling and allow for better scaping. As to height I can go up to 30 inches.
While the trend would be to go with the biggest dimensions possible I don't want to endup regretting those additional 2-4 inches of height or width that could make thigs difficult on the long run.
some considerations:
-lighting will be 3 250 MH with coral cue electronic ballasts and mini lumenbright pendants. will supplement with 4-6 rows of T5 or as much as I can fit as I want to be able to enjoy the tank outside the 5-6 hours of MH on .
-Tank will be a mixed reef with softies LPS and SPS so won't mind a darker lower part of the tank.
-I always hated looking down to the tank on my current one especially with the somehow higher rock structure. that is why I would love to have a 43 inches high tank. looking a the tank while sitting won't be an issue as the seats are around 15-18 feet away so I won't be looking up to it while sittingl also as the dining room will be in front of the tank that would elevate it higher than the table.
-Pelase advise if I should make the stand 36 or 40inches high.
- would the ratio 80 inches long look better on a 28 30 or 32 inches high tank or would the difference be negligible?
Sorry for the long post but I really need to decide on this before I can finalize many other things about this upgrade

 

[powderhound]

Might want to limit your height to about 27 inches for the 250 watt bulbs and for the ease of cleaning. The wider you make it the better, in my opinion.

 

[maroun.c]

Thanks for your help.
do you think the 250s with the LB reflectors wont be able to give to much light for some soft corals or LPS on the bottom?

 

[crvz]

since you'll most likely be standing when viewing the tank, I'd vote for the 40" stand. I had mine at 43" as the tank was in a hallway, and that worked pretty well. 40" may have been better, but I wanted the extra height for sump space and skimmer options. I would agree, though, that you're better off with a shallow tank with the larger footprint, especially if you have a tall stand. I would prefer something in the 24" or under (even though I may end up with something a bit taller in the next few months). If you went with a 30" tall tank, I think you'd be fine with the LBs and 250W bulbs even with coral on the bottom, but you may have to be a bit strategic in placing that coral.

 

[ChadTheSpike]

I agree with crvz on the tank footprint (largest you can fit) and stand height, especially since you want it higher anyway (with the stand at 40" and the tank at 28-32", you will be working on a ladder with almost any of the options).

My vote for height is 28" (or from an aesthetics point of view, I would go with 26.5" for a 1 to 3 ratio... but Im odd like that). Think about working in the tank and how you will do it and go with the deepest tank that is not a pain to work in. With one side access (like when a tank is against a wall), it is difficult to reach the back bottom of wide tanks. Go with what you will be able to easily maintain or come up with creative means to work in the tank (reach rods and the like).

To your 250w light, reflector, and lps/softies on the bottom question: With a footprint the size of what you are talking, there will be a lot of places that will be of 'lower light' on or near the bottom. I think you will be fine, a little creative aqua-scaping will give you areas that will meet the needs of most common corals.

 

[maroun.c]

since you'll most likely be standing when viewing the tank, I'd vote for the 40" stand. I had mine at 43" as the tank was in a hallway, and that worked pretty well. 40" may have been better, but I wanted the extra height for sump space and skimmer options. I would agree, though, that you're better off with a shallow tank with the larger footprint, especially if you have a tall stand. I would prefer something in the 24" or under (even though I may end up with something a bit taller in the next few months). If you went with a 30" tall tank, I think you'd be fine with the LBs and 250W bulbs even with coral on the bottom, but you may have to be a bit strategic in placing that coral.

Thanks for your help.
Guess you're right about the 40 inches being much better under the stand as this will allow for ebtter access.
Still have to check if I can fit a 40 inch stand and a 32 inch tank as they messed up with the vent tube that goes from above the tank to outside the appartment and made it a bit lower than I wanted...
Don't mind being strategic about coral placement as I don't even plan to have SPS on the bottom, Except for maybe a few montiporas on the lower levels but still not bottom level.

 

[maroun.c]

I agree with crvz on the tank footprint (largest you can fit) and stand height, especially since you want it higher anyway (with the stand at 40" and the tank at 28-32", you will be working on a ladder with almost any of the options).

My vote for height is 28" (or from an aesthetics point of view, I would go with 26.5" for a 1 to 3 ratio... but Im odd like that). Think about working in the tank and how you will do it and go with the deepest tank that is not a pain to work in. With one side access (like when a tank is against a wall), it is difficult to reach the back bottom of wide tanks. Go with what you will be able to easily maintain or come up with creative means to work in the tank (reach rods and the like).

To your 250w light, reflector, and lps/softies on the bottom question: With a footprint the size of what you are talking, there will be a lot of places that will be of 'lower light' on or near the bottom. I think you will be fine, a little creative aqua-scaping will give you areas that will meet the needs of most common corals.

Thanks for your suggestions.
don't mind being on a ladder when working on the tank as I already have to use one when reaching to lower levels of my 24 inch high tank and 36 inches high tank. 26.5 high would be too short especially with how short my 2 inches high tank looks. Wht I think is that with the can0py covering 2-3 inches of the tank and the sand taking up 2-3 inches the effective height will be reduced. One other thing I'm cnosidering is how true the rule of thirds will stand especially when I will have to have a higher canopy for the LB? wouldn't a 24-25 inches high canopy look very big on top of a 26-28 inches high tank?

 

[ChadTheSpike]

One other thing I'm cnosidering is how true the rule of thirds will stand especially when I will have to have a higher canopy for the LB? wouldn't a 24-25 inches high canopy look very big on top of a 26-28 inches high tank?

Let me first qualify myself by saying that I took one year of interior design ih high school (a long time ago)... and it was ONLY because all the cheerleaders were taking it (my interests were certainly not in making pretty rooms), I am horrible at it, I eventually became an engineer... so I will let you draw your own conclusions... hehe

Anyway, I think it is more of a matter of focus, do you want the focus to be what is inside the glass box, or to be the entire structure, or one followed by the other? If you ever see some of those tv shows that showcases someone's high-end home, many have really impressive and beautiful aquariums set up with really mediocre (or poor) livestock. Those setups are more about the structure with the aquarium than what is in the aquarium itself.

Now, sure you can have both and I think from an overall effect it would be stunning. First, let the viewer take in the presence of the stand and canopy with a tank in it, then let them be drawn in by what is in the tank.

That was a lot of rambling for me to say that I dont think that having a 24 or 25" tall canopy would look funny. I think it could look very impressive. Adding the heights up, you could have the aquarium take up all of the space from the floor to the ceiling and the whole effect could be very stunning (perhaps this would be how to choose the specific aquarium height).

 

[RoastReef]

As far as tank height, mine is 30" and I wish it was shorter. It's a pain to have to reach something on the bottom of the tank (I've got grabbers but they can't hold on to heavy things like rock). I agree with the depth comment though, go as deep as possible.

 

[maroun.c]

Let me first qualify myself by saying that I took one year of interior design ih high school (a long time ago)... and it was ONLY because all the cheerleaders were taking it (my interests were certainly not in making pretty rooms), I am horrible at it, I eventually became an engineer... so I will let you draw your own conclusions... hehe

Anyway, I think it is more of a matter of focus, do you want the focus to be what is inside the glass box, or to be the entire structure, or one followed by the other? If you ever see some of those tv shows that showcases someone's high-end home, many have really impressive and beautiful aquariums set up with really mediocre (or poor) livestock. Those setups are more about the structure with the aquarium than what is in the aquarium itself.

Now, sure you can have both and I think from an overall effect it would be stunning. First, let the viewer take in the presence of the stand and canopy with a tank in it, then let them be drawn in by what is in the tank.

That was a lot of rambling for me to say that I dont think that having a 24 or 25" tall canopy would look funny. I think it could look very impressive. Adding the heights up, you could have the aquarium take up all of the space from the floor to the ceiling and the whole effect could be very stunning (perhaps this would be how to choose the specific aquarium height).

Chad not sure if my last post sounded like if I was taking down the rule of thirds which I tend to believe in a lot after seeing how much difference it makes in photography... I totally understand what you are saying and totally agree with it. What I meant was that even if in reality 26.5 would be the propper ratio by calculation, the fact that 2-3 inches of the glass will be covered by the canopy from the top and another 1-2 inches from down so that adds up to around 5 inches of glass not seen. Then another 2-3 inches of sand that don't really count as the tank itself adds it up to 7-8 inches lost so why not compensate for those to get the real third?

As for the focus of the build, I intended to leave this for the build thread but as this will be crucial to decide on the dimensions of the tank I'll post a sneak preview here just to be able to better decide on tank dimensions this way we'll finalize it so I can put the xxx Gallons of the tank in the title of my build thread :smokin:

I ahve been planning this build for 3-4 years and the tank has been incorporated in the build of the appartment (Plumbing, electrical and ventilation). It is the center of the appartment and the home entrance, living reception and dining rooms are centered on the tank and have been designed and lit to creat leading lines to the tank... much more on this in the build thread when I start it. So bottom line the build is intended to focus and impress (me at least not viewers who can be impressed with a gold fish bowl)
Size is not really crucial for me as as can be seen fromthe design I could have gone much much larger but decided to keep it to a size where the tank would not be oversized to the room it's in even if the size of the rooms around it is rather large. Not sure if the drawings will clarify it much as the olbique cut wood to creat leading lines to the tank doesn't really show that much in pictures. It was all designed with an architect who is also a reefer (300G tank)

Placement size is 187.6Lx 42W x 110H after loosing 25 inches for drop ceiling.

This picture is with my current tank added to the design, hopefully the next tank and scape will look much better.


So if I go for a 40 inches stand and 24-25 inches canopy and a 28inches high tank and a 17 inches upper cabinet would that make the tank look smaller than it is? I do want the cabinets to show and even to be admired but done' want it to minimize the tank?

Again I appreciate your comments especially with you being involved in engineering and architecture and I always accept any advice, suggestion or criticism.

In the end if it comes to feeling I chose the wrong dimensions each time I look at the tank go with?

 

[maroun.c]

Just to expalin the drawing a bit better. the two silver parts next to the tank are 2 cabinets that are around 8-10 inches thinner than the tank. so the tank extends by 8-10 inches outside thsoe cabinets which gives it a more 3 D effect. I ahd another dispay where the tank was totally in the closets wehre it was more like an inwall setup and this designed looked much more "active" and had a lot more 3 D effect. Outside cabinet is oblique creating a nice leading line all around the tank.

 

[Untamed12]

I like how you've got the front of the tank coming forward, giving it more dimension. I don't know if you plan to use that space under the front of the aquarium or not. I'm wondering what it would look like if you sloped the wall below the aquarium so that it ran back to be flush with the wall as it met the floor. This would further enhance that protruding look. (might be silly...just brainstorming here)

As for dimensions, go as wide as you possibly can. Water makes the back wall of the tank appear much closer than it really is. My tank is a full 4 feet wide, but you would not know it when looking from the front. Whenever people walk around the side, they are always surprised at how wide the tank actually is.

My tank is built at 40"H. This also happens to be standard "bar height", so you will find it easy to find bar stools/chairs that work well with that height. In this way, you have a tank that can be viewed best from standing or sitting on a barstool.

I assume you have no backside access, so you'll have to use some sort of step system to access the tank. This is actually the very reason that my tank evolved to have a bar around it. It started as a catwalk on the backside, then became a catwalk all the way around. The front catwalk just looks nicer!

 

[ChadTheSpike]

Chad not sure if my last post sounded like if I was taking down the rule of thirds which I tend to believe in a lot after seeing how much difference it makes in photography... I totally understand what you are saying and totally agree with it. What I meant was that even if in reality 26.5 would be the propper ratio by calculation, the fact that 2-3 inches of the glass will be covered by the canopy from the top and another 1-2 inches from down so that adds up to around 5 inches of glass not seen. Then another 2-3 inches of sand that don't really count as the tank itself adds it up to 7-8 inches lost so why not compensate for those to get the real third?

Nope, not at all, I understood where you were coming from, and I agree with you The 26.5" -ish should be the viewable panel. You may consider hiding the sand bed (if you dont go BB) with molding and not consider that as part of the viewable panel either.

As for the focus of the build, I intended to leave this for the build thread but as this will be crucial to decide on the dimensions of the tank I'll post a sneak preview here just to be able to better decide on tank dimensions this way we'll finalize it so I can put the xxx Gallons of the tank in the title of my build thread :smokin:

When I said focus here though, I mean more of focal point of the room. When standing in front of the tank what do you want someone new to see first? To me and probably most reefers, we generally see the tank first, but I have seen a few examples where it wouldn't really matter what was in the tank, the furniture of the stand and canopy stand alone. I dont think such a stunning setup would pull away from the tank (so long as it is not overdone), but, instead, it would add to it. In these cases the eyes are first drawn to the beauty of the whole setup, and then to the tank itself.

I think this is a good example of looking first at the stand, and then the tank. But the stand doesn't take away from the tank as a centerpiece.

http://www.acrylicaquariums.com/gallery_detail_5.htm

I ahve been planning this build for 3-4 years and the tank has been incorporated in the build of the appartment (Plumbing, electrical and ventilation). It is the center of the appartment and the home entrance, living reception and dining rooms are centered on the tank and have been designed and lit to creat leading lines to the tank... much more on this in the build thread when I start it. So bottom line the build is intended to focus and impress (me at least not viewers who can be impressed with a gold fish bowl)
Size is not really crucial for me as as can be seen fromthe design I could have gone much much larger but decided to keep it to a size where the tank would not be oversized to the room it's in even if the size of the rooms around it is rather large. Not sure if the drawings will clarify it much as the olbique cut wood to creat leading lines to the tank doesn't really show that much in pictures. It was all designed with an architect who is also a reefer (300G tank)

Placement size is 187.6Lx 42W x 110H after loosing 25 inches for drop ceiling.

This picture is with my current tank added to the design, hopefully the next tank and scape will look much better.

I love the idea and admire your perseverance to make your dream reality! I am really looking forward to your build!

So if I go for a 40 inches stand and 24-25 inches canopy and a 28inches high tank and a 17 inches upper cabinet would that make the tank look smaller than it is? I do want the cabinets to show and even to be admired but done' want it to minimize the tank?

I think as long as you dont go completely nuts and make it really outlandish (I have seen both gothic and egyption themed stands... I wouldnt recommend that!) then it will not distract, it will complement.

Again I appreciate your comments especially with you being involved in engineering and architecture and I always accept any advice, suggestion or criticism.

I dont know so much about the architecture part but I can overdesign the snot out of something!! hehe

In the end if it comes to feeling I chose the wrong dimensions each time I look at the tank go with?

I agree with you, you should be happy with it

 

[ChadTheSpike]

By the way, the bar around the tank is a cool idea!

 

[maroun.c]

I like how you've got the front of the tank coming forward, giving it more dimension. I don't know if you plan to use that space under the front of the aquarium or not. I'm wondering what it would look like if you sloped the wall below the aquarium so that it ran back to be flush with the wall as it met the floor. This would further enhance that protruding look. (might be silly...just brainstorming here)

As for dimensions, go as wide as you possibly can. Water makes the back wall of the tank appear much closer than it really is. My tank is a full 4 feet wide, but you would not know it when looking from the front. Whenever people walk around the side, they are always surprised at how wide the tank actually is.

My tank is built at 40"H. This also happens to be standard "bar height", so you will find it easy to find bar stools/chairs that work well with that height. In this way, you have a tank that can be viewed best from standing or sitting on a barstool.

I assume you have no backside access, so you'll have to use some sort of step system to access the tank. This is actually the very reason that my tank evolved to have a bar around it. It started as a catwalk on the backside, then became a catwalk all the way around. The front catwalk just looks nicer!

Sloping the wall below the tank to match with the cabinet above it would have been perfect, however that would need sloping the legs of the metalic stand underneath it and that would affect their stability or make them more prone to opening.

As for the tank deapth looking much less because of the water, Totally agree and this is why I was trying to make it a bit higher so that it looks a bit bigger as the tank is still much less than the third of the height of the cabinetry it's in. One thing we discussed with the architecht and 2 other fellow reefers helping me inthis build was islands positioning and orientation which should somehow enhance the sense of deapth. Will have multiple islands with some in front of others and at an angle so it can tell more how deep the tank is as well as allow viewing at an angle from other seating areas... This is actuallyt he main problem as I was never good at scaping and been struggling with the scape of my 150.

40" high stand is a consideration to me however I have one limitation and that is that the aquarium vent tubes were built in wall and they made a mistake and placed them at 71" from floor level so tank and stand have to be a bit below that. still working on the poissibility to take down the wall and repeat them or maybe place external covers on them going up so that they such hot air from top of canopy. If that can be done in 4 inches that I'm planing to leave between the wall and tank then they can go higher.

No access from the back, but I'm still working on having access through those silver closets next to the tank that woul allow me to reach the side glass lower levels as well as have access tot he overflow which I'm still wondering wether it will be internal or external. as with the current design the tank goes out of hte cabninetry on the side so a coast to cost overflow is not possible. an internal overflow would not be accessible in the back if I can' manage a side access. my best bet would be a two part external overflow (with a drain box inside the tank and then holes through the side glass draining in the external box...)this design will however not allow me to be able to slide the silver cabinet out as the exernal box will be in itso then it becomes more difficult to creat a side opening in the cabinet to reach the side of the tank where the overflow will be... More on this in the build thread

 

[maroun.c]

The 26.5" -ish should be the viewable panel. You may consider hiding the sand bed (if you dont go BB) with molding and not consider that as part of the viewable panel either.

So should compensate for the 2 inches of sand and the 2 inches of upper air water level by making the tank 4 inches higher? so a 30ish hich glass?

When standing in front of the tank what do you want someone new to see first? To me and probably most reefers, we generally see the tank first, but I have seen a few examples where it wouldn't really matter what was in the tank, the furniture of the stand and canopy stand alone. I dont think such a stunning setup would pull away from the tank (so long as it is not overdone), but, instead, it would add to it. In these cases the eyes are first drawn to the beauty of the whole setup, and then to the tank itself.

This is exactly what I'm trying to avoid as I want the tank to be seen first. Unfortunatly I used the space for the cabinets and the wife needs to have those cabinets on the side I get the stand and the silver cabinets. My old setup was more classical and I feel it wouldn't go with the more modern design of furniture I have in mind for the new home. Here's some pics of it

Please feel free to suggest any modification tot he wood work of the new setup n case you feel it's overdone.


Really wish some more people with higher tanks 30-32 inches would chime in to share their experience with that height. I realize its not easy to clean and maintain but is it like a bit difficult or impossible???
Actually I'm starting to think it would be safe to go down to 30 or even 28 inches high as I travel a lot and my wife will have to pick up any fallen corals while I'm on travel and to have her dive in teh tank to pick up a coral will make it more difficult...

Thanks for all the help so far.

 

[khaosinc]

I'm not nessesarily one for appearences, but as far as maintence goes, I've found that a 30" tank on a 36" stand is almost to tall to do anything besides feed the fish without a ladder. My tank is also 4' wide, and due to a little lack of forsight and sump placement I can't even get at the back 1/3 of my tank on a ladder without going swimming. I have fairly long arms, but I'm only 5'10.

 

[Navyblue]

Personally, I wouldn't want a tank deeper and taller than 24" for the sake of maintenace, I even prefer the stand to be no taller than 2.5' Ideally I want the tank rim to be below my armpit level, that way I can reach a lot of things without even tip toeing. I have a 48x24x30" tank and I am giving it away and bought a 48x24x24" again.

I also prefer looking at a tank from a somewhat top down perpective. IMO corals colouration wouldn't look as good most of the time when viewed from the side or bottom. A side effect to it is that stuffs hanging at the top back of the tank would not be visible without bending down.

The downside is a tank can not be too deep or else things at the back would be hard to view.

As for length to height ratio, I think it is a personal thing. Some like a more "picture" like look (lower length to height ratio, i.e. cube tank), some like a more panoramic view (higher length to height ratio, extreme example: "shallow" tank). Personally for larger tank I prefer a panoramic view, something like 3-5:1. Large and tall tank gives me a very overbearing feel, it is like a double edged sword IMO. Done right it can be magnificent, anything short of it would look dirty/messy IMHO.

 

[maroun.c]

Guess will go down from 32 inches planned as all the input I got was that maintenance would be really difficult with such a height.
will keep it at 28 inches as with loosing a couple of inches from up and down where the wood will cover the tank as well as keeping 1 more inch for waves... I will be loosing around 5 inchese of the viewing pannel anyway.
On the advice of a friend I added a 4 inch sheet of wood on my tank (24 inch high) tank and tried to reach in to the bottom, it was a bit more difficult than at 24 for sure but still manageable. Accessing the back glass will be difficult anway due to the added fron to back deapth but still I won't need to reach all the back glass as most of it will be covered by the rock islands...
Thanks again for all your comments.

 

[serpentman]

My 300g (72"Lx36"Wx27"H) is mounted 42" off the ground. At this height, a step stool and tongs are a necessity to do basic maintenance. If the tank were any taller, given the overall width, it would be a real challenge.

If you will not have equal access to the front and back, I would not go any higher than the 28" you mentioned.

BTW, I love having the tank mounted higher up. When people come over, no one has to hunch over to look in.