Help with Zoa Pox and Furan-2 Please?

Yeah - that brings up a question - once you've gotten rid of Zoa Pox, do you find it still comes back occasionally? I'm worried this only beats it back a bit rather than eradicates it?

I haven't really read many notes about people getting rid of this - and then confirming 6 months later it's still gone, so just curious. Thanks,
--Kyle
 
I'd like to hear as well from those who have successfully treated their zoas. Bet they are done with the threads on it unfortunately. Some of us would like to know how long they think we ought to wait before assuming the disease is eradicated. Not that I will be buying new zoas, but I would like to sell some frags of my other corals when this is over. I now think I brought the disease in with liverock, so am assuming it's not safe to sell any coral from my systems.
Found a zoanthid eating starfish after one of the dips, wonder how many times that sucker has split... bet they spread the plague. I should have taken a photo before flushing it. It was a 1cm across asterina type blotched with lavender and baby blue. I have watched these engulf a polyp and after they leave it the polyp is much reduced, damaged and dies. They come out at night.
Something else to watch for while you have your zoas in the hospital tank.
Pulled 3 bright white nocturnal asterinas that ate Pocilloporidae types last week as well. I know that came in on liverock. Would not have thought it would survive cycling... It dropped to the bright white sand right away before I could grab it. Strips coral to the skeleton. Fun.
Always something new with this hobby, keeps it interesting :)
Kate
 
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Hi Kate,
Do they really eat your polyps? I have asterina stars all over my tank (several different types), but I haven't noticed any damage to my zoas... Hopefully I'm just lucky and mine don't like zoas - b/c I like the asterinas! :) I did my third dip last night and all looks well - but I can't really tell that the white spots are going away yet...

I have one large colony that spans a hole in a rock so I can see from the other side of the rock. On this underside, there's a large patch of white - more than any of the other spots. I'm wondering if this is something else b/c this colony doesn't have a single speck of white (pox) anywhere else. Thoughts? Take care,
--Kyle
 
there are some predatory type asterinas while also there are some that are reefsafe. for me, I just remove all if I find any right away. I rather not want to take a chance having them wiping out my collection under my nose.
 
I don't think all asterinas are damaging. I have plenty of olive green ones that plainly eat only algae. The blue and lavender ones I have repeatedly observed over a period of years engulfing zoanthids at night and leaving them shrunken, yellowish beige, slimey and soon dead. I remove that type on sight.
There are probably numerous species of white asterina, some of which might be likely to eat coral. I had a linkia that ate coral, it was blotched baby blue with rust spots. Unfortunately it is almost impossible to identify the exact species of most starfish, and many have not yet been formally indentified. Of those given a genus/species name it's likely few have had their diet formally studied. So basically it's hard to say, and we have to observe what we have ourselves.
Since a lot of predators are nocturnal it's worth taking a flashlight to the tank at night now and then, and especially checking any colony having problems, never know what you will find. That is how I busted the stars that ate my zoas years ago. Also got a reef spider.
I have a friend who tosses any invert he can't ID, and I think that is a bit extreme. I have never seen the green asterinas do anything but make bite marks in the algae on the glass, if yours do the same you are possibly ok.
I am so reassuring eh? :) I hang out with people who being scientists have peer pressured me into not making assumptions without proof, which I can't do without the letters after my name and a whole lotta training and lab gear. So I tend to err on the side of caution.
What I would like to know is if anyone has ever submitted a zoa pox infected specimen to a coral pathologist? If not maybe it's worth the effort. Fish pathologist near me is quite reasonable, maybe I can find a coral guy to help us.
Kate
 
:) Thanks Kate. Yeah, I know some people have problems with asterinas and others don't. I'm hoping I continue to not have problems... But when I start seeing issues, I'll get the guys out.

Coral pathologist looking at the zoa pox would be great! I still don't understand exactly what it is... Take care,
--Kyle
 
Hi Kate, have you heard more about zoa pox from any coral pathologists?

Sadly, I don't think the Furan-2 is quite getting the job done... I did my 6 dips (3 dips, then stop a few days, then 3 more dips), and all white spots were gone, but now they are again coming back :( So now I don't know what to do... I can keep fighting them with more dips, but I'm afraid it's in the water / sand / rock and will just continue to keep coming back! Ugh...

Charles, have you had them coming back repeatedly? I hear of people getting rid of the pox, but I don't know if they'd still say it's gone a month later? Thanks,
--Kyle
 
I dip all the frags/colonies over a course of several weeks, 1-2 dips a week then rest, continue the next week, start again... for several weeks.

If you want best results, put the polyps after dipping in a separate frag/extra tank to heal and let the Main tank afflo of polyps to risk any chance of pox ever coming back.

I've only had 1 time where the pox was NASTY to get rid of and held on for dear life, which was on my wild colonies of Deepwaters when they first started coming in... I had hundreds of polyps infected, and went through a bunch of boxes of furan. lost 1/2 at the least of the hundreds of polyps.

All the infected DWZ's were kept in a 20 gallon while they were being treated to lessen the chances of polyps in the main tank getting infected.
 
Thanks Charles - I'd do that if I had a separate frag tank! It's enough trouble maintaining a DT + QT (currently used as a HT for a BSJF)... I guess I kind of have done 4 weeks of treatments now - but the first two weeks were at a relatively weak strength. It's just so much work doing this 2-3 times a week. :( Thanks,
--Kyle
 
Trust me, imagine several weeks dips of a couple hundered polyps worth of colonies and frags... now that's a PITA.
 
I did not get a sample to a pathologist as it appears to have disappeared.
I put the infected and most valuable specimens in a 10 with a CPR backpack skimmer, 55 watt pc light and 50 watt heater, and did the first run of dips. Some of my colonies are on 10 lb rocks or more so this was not going to work. I finally decided to follow the directions on the med and put it in the 10. Everything bleached badly, so I might lose it all anyways. But I don't see any lesions of any kind.
I left a ton of polyps in the main tank, but everything in there appears healthy. Actually had hoped some of those would die, they are all over the place. Unfortunately I do not know the incubation period, if the palythoas or some other animal is asymptomatically a carrier, or other things that would help decide when I can put these back. So they might be in the 10 a while.
Kate
 
Hi All,
Well I'd quit treating as the pox seemed to keep coming back but not really doing much damage. Now, months later it's done some more significant damage - killing some of the polyps off :( This has been no fun - lot of work to treat them... But here I go again. This time I'm going to treat 4 weeks in a row and hopefully get rid of it for good.

One question for you all - have you ever seen zoa pox affect palys? Or is it exclusive to zoanthids? I don't know the exact difference really, but I know some of mine are palys - mostly zoas though. Nothing on the palys yet that I've noticed... Take care,
--Kyle
 
I have done some hard dips on polyps in the past. 1 packet per cup is fine up to at least an hour, and I've even had a few polyps survive overnight (accidentally) at that concentration. Overnight hits them really hard, they usually bleach but bounce back after a while.

I have not seen it completely eradicated, I still see it pop up on a few highly susceptible morphs from time to time. Usually I let it run its course now...usually doesnt kill much, just pops up on a couple of polyps and then goes away. I really think it is more symptomatic of stress rather than a particular pathogen, but I could be wrong. Going out on a limb here its almost like an immune response, looks like pus at the site of an infection.

I have not seen white spots, but I have seen stress/melting in palys while having pox on zoas. Could be the same stressor or pathogen is impacting the palys, they just dont have whatever mechanism results in the white spots.

Would be interested in hearing more discussion/hypotheses on causes. I agree that stressors seem to play a role, and I have seen the same seasonal weirdness reported by others.
 
I wish it would affect my palythoas... they have become a menace.
I noticed that the infections only appeared on colonies that are tred on by cleaner shrimp. I know the shrimp pinch. Makes me wonder if they spread it. Anyone else notice this?
I have not seen it for a good while in my main tank, and it appears everything I treated recovered. I did the standard dose of furan in a 10 gallon tank instead of dips. They did all bleach, and are slowly recovering from that. I think the heater might have been set too high.
Kate
 
Thanks for that info therman. I wish I understood this Zoa Pox thing more. Seems the scientific community would know more about it. Personally, I've had great success with most softies (mushrooms), LPS, and even SPS in my tank - so my water quality has to be good right? NO3, PO4, etc. all 0, Alk, Ca, Mg, etc. all in great ranges; good skimmer, weekly water changes, chaeto, media reactor, etc. Yet I'm having trouble with Zoanthids and not anything else! And they're supposed to be one of the easiest corals. Sheesh...

This time around, the zoa pox is covering larger areas, is more gray, and not just "spots" - possibly even something different? Take care,
--Kyle
 
Hi Kate,
My cleaner shrimp does walk on some of the zoas that have zoa pox - but not the ones on the opposite end of the tank that now have them too.

Why are your palythoas a menace? Growing more than you'd like? Just curious...

How long did you keep them in the 10 gallon tank? How much Furan-2 did you use? Did you have sufficient lighting in it? Again, just curious... I just ordered 5 boxes of Furan-2 because I think it's going to take a lot of dip treatments to win this battle... :(

Edit: Maybe keeping them in a QT for awhile would be a good idea. If I knew more about this it would help to treat it better. i.e. is it something in the water that would die off if there are no zoas for it to grow on? If so, I could put them in a QT for awhile until it "dies off" in the DT. Just like you would do with Ich... Take care,
--Kyle
 
Never mind, I just saw that you can use DT water. Anyone having problems with the Furan not dissolving in the water?
 
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