Herbie Emergency Drain Noise

[SloppyJ]

So I just finished my plumbing and completed a leak test. Everything is great but I have a problem with my emergency line. It's loud.

So I've read to do it both ways, dry and wet. Sure, running a dry emergency is great, but it's like finding a unicorn at this point. :celeb2: I put a spears gate valve on my siphon line. I cannot tune it perfectly where the level in the overflow box is perfect. It either rises too much and goes into the drain or it falls too much and sucks air through my siphon drain.

Given that I've only spent about an hour with it, I'm sure I could get it correct with patience and time, but is it needed? Seems like I'd be adjusting that thing all the time if my goal was to run the emergency dry.

I chamfered the interior edges of the emergency drain with a jeweler's file and it's still pretty loud. Should I leave it that way to alert me that my emergency line is running or should I invest the time in quieting it down? Could I 90 it into the water durso style?

This is my first time with a herbie so I'm not sure the best way to run it. Thanks for the help.

 

[SloppyJ]

 

[uncleof6]

Well, if you were not running water through the dry emergency drain, which you aren't supposed to be doing, contrary to the popular "fracture" of the design that defeats the failsafe, the drain system would be dead silent. Requiring only a minor adjustment periodically.

On page one of herbie's thread it states a siphon and a dry emergency. A dry emergency does not have a "trickle" of water through it.

The "trickle" did not come about till after bean's design was published, and it was rationalized that hey the herbie can be "self adjusting" too, just run a trickle through the dry emergency. This ignores the logic that if a drain has water in it, something else will get in it too. This also ignores the logic that if something gets in the "trickle" pipe, and it slows, the water has no where to go but over the sides of the tank, since the siphon is resricted and the flow will not increase through it. That is why with the addition of the "open channel" in bean's system the "dry emergency" must still be used, making for three pipes.

That said, you can run the system any way you would like. The problem you are having is because you are running too much water through the "dry emergency," therefore it is behaving just like any other open channel with too much flow through it.

You have two options: One is to set up the system the way it should be set up, by raising the inlet to the dry emergency above the running water line in the overflow, (raise it, or adjust the water level lower) Two is to slow the flow through the "dry emergency" till water just starts to flow in it, by adjusting the water level in the overflow down. (How a properly adjusted bean system is adjusted.) Which you do, is entirely up to you. Lots of things "work", many things don't work so good, others are not safe...

 

[SGT_York]

Have a trickle, it works great.

You dont' want much water, but a slight bit won't be an issue, Uncle's point is to keep stuff out of it, so get a lid or a screen that will block snails, fish, and light to keep the algae from growing in your overflow blocking drains.

 

[SloppyJ]

Hey, I want to do it correctly. The article that I found mentioned letting some water run down. When it was making noise there wasn't much water going down at all. I'd rather it be loud if the emergency drain is to be kept dry. Guess I'll try to set the level via the gate valve and go from there.

I have a lid for my overflow so I'm not worried about critters. I have a strainer on my siphon and I can get a cover for the emergency but think I'd rather keep it open and not restrict any flow just incase I need it.

 

[Indymann99]

Also, you need to have about 1inch of "fall" into your overflow to promote surface skimming (your overflow picture shows little to no fall). I have been running a 100% dry (emergency) pipe Herbie system for 6yrs.

I do find that the water level in the overflow can fluctuate 1/2 in (the only thing I can correlate it to is weather/barometric pressure changes).

 

[uncleof6]

Also, you need to have about 1inch of "fall" into your overflow to promote surface skimming (your overflow picture shows little to no fall). I have been running a 100% dry (emergency) pipe Herbie system for 6yrs.

I do find that the water level in the overflow can fluctuate 1/2 in (the only thing I can correlate it to is weather/barometric pressure changes).

And your correlation would be correct...the acceleration due to gravity, the size of the opening, and the length of the drop, are not going to change at all. The only other variable is the friction loss, (well there is also temp/viscosity/density) which over time will raise, as you get buildup on the pipe walls.

SloopyJ: By default, if the dry emergency kicks in due to a siphon plug, you can bet it will be loud. Set the system, so the dry emergency is dry under normal operation and small (1/2") variations, and you will be gold.

 

[SloppyJ]

Thanks for the help Uncle. I appreciate it.