Herbie method questions

[taddonio1970]

I have been going through all threads and still have a few questions about Drilling 40 breeder and internal overflow fixture angles. I have read the article on gmac but plan on drilling side of tank. question:

1) Should main drain and E drain be drilled at same level?
2) On gmac says main drain and E drain should be about 6 inches apart. Do I accomplish this by turning main drain fixture down and E drain fixture up?
3) I understand E drain determines water level in tank, what is optimal water level in relation to black border? should top of e drain be level with bottom of black border?
4) I will be using 5 sided internal overflow box from brs, should top of teeth be level with top of e drain? or should i level top of teeth with bottom of black border and position top of e drain at a certain distance lower than top of teeth i.e. 1/2 inch 1/4 inch?
5) I plan on drilling return. Should return hole be same level with Drain holes?

Thank you in advance. Great site. First attempt and already addicted.

 

[homer1475]

For a herbie drain method its 2 pipes no angles. I think your confusing herbie and bean animal. Bean animal has up turned elbows, herbie is just 2 straight pipes. And yes your main siphon drain should be at least 6 inches below the emergency drain.

Water level is personal preference, but if it were me and I had a tank with a rim, I would keep the water level just below the top trim. So the water line is hidden behind the thick trim on the outside of the tank.

As far as your weir teeth and water level, you want the water to go through the weir not over. Also the less fall the water has to go through the weir, the less noise you will have. My water level is about 1/4" below the top of the weir teeth.

Your Returns can be put anywhere, but the you also want a siphon break so when you shut down the return pipe, your return lines don't keep siphoning water out of the display. In my setup I have my return lines just below the top of the water. They still break the surface of the water when running, but when I shut down my return pump, the water from the display only goes down about an inch.

Hope that helps some. Any more questions ask away!

 

[lagatbezan]

maybe this can help:

 

[Lsufan]

If u are drilling the tank then I would recommend a beananimal drain setup. A herbie is a good drain setup but it's not as good as a beananimal. I don't see a reason to not go with a beananimal if u are drilling the tank anyways.

All of the holes for the drains & even the returns can be drilled at the same level. Wherever u read about the emergency being 6" lower then the syphon must have been talking about a bottom drilled tank like in the picture above.There is a certain distance u have to stay away from the edges of the glass & inbetween holes u drill. I would drill all of the holes as high as possible on the tank. So I would stay the minimum recommended distance ( which 1X the hole size u are drilling to the hole or 1.5X to the center of the hole) from the top of the tank. Especially for the returns because the lower u drill them the more backflow u will get when u turn your return pump off.

It sounds like your overflow box is one that is held on by the bulkheads. If that is the case & the holes are drilled in the overflow already then u are kinda stuck with where to drill your holes.

If u provide some more info on the overflow box, if u actually want a herbie or a bean & what size holes your drilling we could help some more, but I would do a search on here for a thread called (silent & failsafe overflow system) it's a really long beananimal thread but they have a lot of info on the first few pages

 

[taddonio1970]

yes

yes

That was where I read that. Bottom drilled tank.

 

[taddonio1970]

I was considering beananimal however I was planning on drilling hole for return. Was afraid 4 holes would affect integrity of a 40 breeder. Have also read that Beananimal needs coast to coast. I plan on using 1 1/2" drain lines. I have not yet drilled internal overflow box but was planning on using BRS 5 sided medium. 7L x 4W x 5H. I have seen Herbie with upturned elbow wet/dry emergency drain. by straight pipe do you mean through the baffle with screen but no elbow or angle?

 

[homer1475]

Yes just through the bulkhead with a strainer. If they were using upturned elbows on a herbie, it was setup improperly.

Herbie uses 2 straight pipes. Main siphon with a strainer on it, and a dry/trickle emergency. Both are just straight pipes.

here is everything you need to know about setting up a herbie style drain.
http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/

And just for kicks, here's another link that describes the differences between the 3 main styles of doing an overflow.
http://gmacreef.com/aquarium-overflows-durso-herbie-and-bean-setups/

 

[Lsufan]

Being that u are drilling the back of the tank u will need atleast a elbow on the emergency. The straight standpipes are for bottom drilled tanks. Most people who use a herbie have bottom drilled tanks because a herbie was most popular when most tanks where the reefready tanks with holes drilled in the bottom. When people started drilling the backs of the tanks & started using long overflow boxes to get better surface skimming, the beananimal started to get more popular to where today it is the preferred setup.

I wouldn't worry to much about the gph ratings of the overflow boxes, I would get as long of a box as possible so u can get the best surface skimming as possible. I prefer no teeth on my wiers because the teeth hurt surface skimming, but u won't find any manufactured overflows without teeth. On my 40 breeder I made my overflow box 28" long to save some space on both ends for the returns. To me surface skimming is a important factor when I design my overflows.

If it was me I would get the 18" overflow box instead of the 7". If u look at the BRS page about the overflow, they even recommend to get the biggest overflow that will fit your tank. That would give u enough space for a beananimal also. My 40 breeder has been setup 3 or 4 years & I haven't had to touch the valve on my syphon except maybe 1 or 2 times. It is by far the most consistent & safest setup to have.

Have u looked into they synergy overflows on BRS, are still more expensive but they are on sale right now for about $50 dollars off.

I think u are going overkill with 1.5" drains on a 40 breeder, 1" drains will be plenty. U may even have a little trouble with consistency on a 1.5" syphon if u don't plan on having a bunch of flow through the sump. Anything less then 600 or 700 gph & I would go with 1" because the 1.5" may have issues.

 

[taddonio1970]

Ok i'm convinced. Beananimal it is. Is it possible to drill a fourth hole for return or do I need to go over top? Members on this site are the best. Thanks for all the input.

 

[Lsufan]

Yes, u can drill 4 holes as long as u keep the recommended distance between the holes. U want to be a minimum of 1X hole diameter between holes & from the edge of the glass.

A 1" bulkheads call for a 1.75" hole. So u want to be atleast 1.75" from the top of the tank glass to the top of the hole. The same thing from the edge of the tank & u would want atleast 1.75" between each hole drilled.

Usually I stay pretty close to the minimum distance from the top of the tank because it lets me make my overflow box as small as possible hieght wise. On the returns it makes it to where u get the lease amount of backflow to the sump.

If possible I try & keep 1.5X hole diameter between holes though. Which may or may not be possible depending on the size of the overflow box. Definitely stay atleast the 1X hole diameter & u should be fine.

I would recommend doing plenty of research even if it delays setting the tank up by a bit. That way u know once u get setup u have what u want & don't regret or have to redo anything