Herbies silent overflow

[derick75]

Im sure there are some of you who remember my microbubble problem. I gave up trying to fix it using the conventional methods everything i did failed.

So i took the plunge and tried herbies method. I am using a ball valve not a gate valve that is on order here are my problems.

1. Setting the water height inside the overflow, i am trying to set the water level right before the emergency drain, when i do this i am getting very little gph in the sump barely anything.

2. Still getting massive amounts of air and bubbles in to the sump.

3. after 10 min or so the water slowy rise into the emergency drain.

4. large bubbles rise from the bottom of the overflow into the drain.

check out my pictures and tell me what i am doing wrong thanks

derick. this picture show the overflow i am using a stainless steel grate which is temp until i find some eggcrate.

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ball valve which will be replaced with a gate

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this is the return in the sump which is submerged a few inches

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[bassnman11]

How are your drain pipes attached to the overflow? MIne are just friction fit into the bulkheads. I capped off the emergency drain side and experimented with the main drain pipe to adjust the height. I then made a emergency drain pipe 1/4 inch longer.

 

[derick75]

they are slip fit

 

[derick75]

the siphon holes in the return dont do crap. when the mag7 is turned off, the overflow drains into the sump until it is level with the drain.

if i turn of my skimmer the overflow drains and sucks air so far this setup sucks

 

[davidwong]

derick75

please see if the following help:-

remove the stainless steel grate;

may also remove the elbow in the return;

open the ball valve (better if it is a gate valve for easy adjustment) fully;

plug in the return pump and let the water run from the overflow into the sump and up and circulate again for 3 minutes, ensure the return is submerged in the sump, have a feel on what is going on;

SLOWLY close the ball valve, bit by bit and no hurry;

you will see the water level in the overflow rises slowly, and you stop at the point you would like it to be, that is all;

if the return now is out of water in the sump, fill some more water to make it submerges but ensure that once the return pump is off, the water drain from the overflow together with the existing water in the sump do not exceed the capacity of the sump and flood the carpet. this is your ideal water level in the sump.

have been with this method for 2 months and it works for me

 

[derick75]

i am not going to take a chance without the strainer, i have 70 snails..last night the water level rose about 4 inches and caused the emergency drain to kick in did not touch the dial and have a auto top off unit installed

 

[RichConley]

derick, you're more likely to have a snail caused flood with that strainer than you are with an open pipe. With an open pipe, the snails will just end up in your sump. With that, they'll get stuck there, it'll fill up with shells, and you'll have a flood.

 

[Conceyted]

just keep your snails out of your overflow completely... use some gutterguard around the overflow. From there you can choose the leave the strainer on or off. I dont think the strainer is the problem. I think your probelm is that your ball valve does not "fine tune" like a gatevalve does. Therefore when you get the ball valve tuned in you are still gaining a little more water on the return than you are draining. That explains why every so often the emergency drain has to kick on. With a gate valve you shouldnt see these problems.

Second, your return having bubbles has nothing to do with this plumbing method. What I assume to be your return pump is directly under the tank drain... of course your return will have bubbles in it if your drain is sucking in air. Why dont you try relocating your return to the other end of your sump and focus the drain so that the water and bubbles enter the sump AWAY from the pump. That should fix the bubble problem.

PS: This still might not solve your bubble problem fully. Many people resort to baffles to stop bubbles from entering the return pump. Once a bubble enters that pump, you can assure yourself you will have tons in the display (from powerheads and the like) You should take extra precautions to keep stray bubbles away from your return.

 

[silverwolf72]

If this is setup right there should be no way for there to ever be bubbles in your drain, which mean you either have an air leak in your drain, are pulling air into the overflow(not far enough under the water surface causing a vortex) or I'm thinking with that screen on you have a large air bubble trapped.

 

[Untamed12]

I concur with Silverwolf....the intake to the pipe going to the sump is underwater...and the outflow into the sump is also underwater...Where's the air coming from? There must be a hole in the pipe.

 

[derick75]

no hole in the pipe, the bubbles are coming from the very bottom of the overflow not microbubbles they are fairly large, they seem to be coming from the bulkhead area what can i do

 

[RichConley]

hold on, is the emergency drain running to the same pipe as the regular drain?

 

[derick75]

no take a look at the pics above

 

[jayo]

for this configuration you _want_ to have a small trickle of water running into teh emergency drain so that the water level in your overflow chamber stays constant.

Air should not be getting into your main drain pipe. There should not be large bubbles at the bottom of your overflow chamber (bubbles should rise to the top - if these are big very flat bubbles 'stuck on' to the bottom, just stir them off or wait - they won't replenish themselves).

metal screen = bad idea. find something plastic if you think you need a screen.

jayo

 

[jayo]

Oh, and a second question - why do you have a pipe on your main drain? you can leave it totally open in this application - no standpipe at all (or in your case, a small square of eggcrate for snail control).


If your main drain and emergency drain levels are too close and you are draining a large amount of water, maybe air is getting sucked down in a whirlpool fashion in the main drain (BAD).

 

[derick75]

how many people do not use a stand pipe for a main drain every pic i seen use one if thats the case i will remove it. But when you shut off the sump all the water in your overflow goes into the sump correct? like i said how many people utilize this method

i have less then 300 gallon per hour in a 38 gallon sump which flows intp a thick berlin sock no bubble problem in the sump that i see i did this method to get rid of the bubbles they remain.

I see many bubbles being sucked down the clear drain hose when i first start up the sump after a few min it is less

 

[jayo]

I have used this method for over five years for noise control on a 300 gal tank (never had a microbubble problem so don't know about those). I never put a standpipe on my main drain. Yes, the overflow chamber will empty out when the pump is shut off.

jayo

 

[derick75]

Conceyted:

that is not my return pump that is a rio 200 for my uv. My mag 7 is completly isolated on the other side of the sump

 

[derick75]

i will remove the standpipe but keep the stainless steel grate in their until i find eggcrate somewhere i asked home depot and they looked at me like i was on crack

 

[jayo]

heh. If they have it it will be in the section with fluorescent lighting. Too bad they don't know their own inventory.

jayo