Here's my story of my first 12 hours with my APEX.

J

jsbull

New member
In 37 years of life, this is the most amazing disaster of a product installation that I've ever seen. Nothing works. They'll drown you in instructions, but none make sense and almost all include out of date instructions and dead links. *

I hope Neptune reads this so I can act as their quality assurance and they can hunt down all of these stupid issues and fix them for the suckers who unknowingly spend a small fortune on this horrible in the future.*

So, my story starts with me opening the boxes and carefully reading through everything.*I read that I need to hardwire for the firmware update, so I do. Not that it needed updated, so there was a wasted 3 trips up and down the stairs to hardwire.*

One of the first steps is to create an account. Ok, but it's not that easy. You set it up, then it opens 2 get started guides, emails you another get started guide and a link to another one or two. By the time I'm in my dashboard, I have 5 get started guides open, each telling me something different to do. Where do I go? I have no clue. I guess I'll pick one and hope it is the right move.*

Maybe let's get it networked up. Wireless game adapter as recommended in the manual: connects immediately, but guess what? No Comm by the Apex. Over and over, every 45 minutes. I was able to adjust the DNS setting to get it to work, but every once in a while, I have to go back to DHCP on, then DHCP off, adjust DNS again and it'll connect. A colossal waste of time because the settings don't seem to hold.*

Well, now that I know the little routine to get it connected, let's continue. It tells me that I need to calibrate the pH probe. Cool, it says instructions will be on-screen. Failed to calibrate.*Failed to calibrate.*Failed to calibrate. ***? I go to YouTube and find a 5 minute user video that does 1000x better at explaining it. Oh, the instructions leave out the fact that you have to rinse the probe with RODI water before and between the calibrations AND wait about a minute for each calibration to level. Kind of key info left out of both the set-up guide and on-screen instructions.*

Now, let's calibrate the salinity (conductivity probe). Oh, I need a second temp probe? ***? I guess that's another $30 to spend on top of the $1,200 I've already dropped on this. Oh, I can move forward without it for now, so I'll do that. Control solution? Where's that? Oh, it didn't come with it. ***? I mean, it HAS to have it to calibrate, so maybe include it? I guess I'll order some from BRS. Oh, they are out of stock. Great...

Well, let's keep moving now. At least I can get my system set up with the automation and stuff. Let's start with the Radion lights and my WXM module. Instructions: Go into Configuration on the top of the WebInterface...except there is no "WebInterface" except for Fusion and it has no "Configuration at the top". After 30 minutes of searching I find: http://neptunesystems.freshdesk.com...ticles/3000018600-ecotech-marine-radion-setup. It has the most ghetto instructions. Log out of EcoSmart Manager, download a new one ONLY at this link...except the link is dead for Mac. Ok, I'll use my Windows PC to do it. I download it, follow the instructions, until it says to plug in direct to the Radions and select "Factory Reset" from "USB Radions" and "USB Radions" is grayed out. Why? because they require you to login first and that page specifically says not to login. Again, ***?*

You know what? Screw this. I'll move on to my EcoTech Vectra M1 pump. What?!?!?!?! It's not compatible with Apex?****!!!!!

I guess I'll head over to ReefCentral to see if they can help before I give up on this. Oh, an Apex new user guide made by users. Perfect. Link dead. Site frozen. You have to be kidding me.*

So, nothing works, nothings compatible, ALL of the instructions are outdated, everything is SOOOOOO over complicated. Why did I spend $1,200 on this?*

Unless someone can give me a really, really good reason that I haven't considered to keep this thing, It's getting packed up and returned tomorrow. I feel bad for the LFS guy that he's going to lose a $1,200 sale and have to take back a bunch of open stuff, but I have no idea why anyone would spend the money on this. I'll get a Reef Link for my EcoTech stuff and I have a Seneye Reef. I'll get a dosing pump other than DOS that's 1/2 the price and will dose 5 things instead of 2. My big loss? I'll have to hit 3 different buttons each time I feed my fish. I'm really not sure why I even bought this POS in the first place.*

I think all the love Apex gets online is some strange self justification for the pain and agony of the setup. If you talk about how great it is, then you actually feel like it was worth that waste of 2 days going in circles setting it up.*
 
Well, it didn't take us 2 days to get mine set up and has saved my tank from potentially crashing 3 times in the last year so yes, any difficulties have been worth it. (Once when a hood fan disconnected and the lights raised the tank temp too high, and twice when the kalk-saturated ATO started dumping too much kalk into the tank.)

Suggestion: If you encounter problems, post in the Neptune forum here on RC and also the forums that Neptune hosts. Any time we've encountered a question on how to do something, if the answer wasn't already posted and answered then a post would get an answer pretty quickly.

But don't give up on it just yet. It really is worth getting it set up and working. Once you're past this frustration and everything's been working for a while you'll be glad you did. It's worth having for much more than just feed cycles. Hang in there!
 
It is a huge headache to start up, but with help from member close to you, the forum on the neptune site, and LOTS of reading you'll figure it out.

I wouldn't even think of having a tank without an apex now that I've used one. I had so many mistakes with temp, ATO, and other things before I had my apex. Now everything is automated and works together.

My best help will be find someone close to you that has one running to help you. I was pulling my hair out for hours one night till a friend of mine showed up an hour or two with him everything was working perfect.

Don't give up, good luck!
 
Took me all of an hour to get setup. Then another 3 or 4 days to figure out the proper programming.

I don't know if I would ever do another SW tank without one. Its saved my tank twice in a little over a year, once when a heater failed, and seco d time when a dosing pump got stuck on. The apex cut the doser when my PH shot up.
 
If I was you I would pack it up and send it back. It's obviously more work than you are willing to invest to learn how to use it.
 
We struggled too, and struggled and struggled.
We did spend a lot of time on forums and eventually on the phone with Apex.
A huge part of our problem were components that did not want to readily communicate with one another (Radions for example).
I will agree that for as much money as we invest in Apex (and don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE fan) building them wireless ready seems a little obvious.
I fear that there are bigger problems ahead, however, as Apex and EcoTech try to work out (or not) their differences over compatibility.

Apex could be easier to set up but it in my opinion it is an invaluable tool for reef keeping.
Good luck!
 
I had no problems at all. It took me a max of 2 hours to set up and run and that includes the wireless gaming device (same one they recommend). The device needs a clear line of sight for signal connection. This gave me a bit of a problem but that's because the router is upstairs in the most furthest room away and the tank is in the basement. I would agree that better steps/instructions would help with the probe calibrations. But overall, I'm completely satisfied with it.
 
I never hear of these problems with Digital Aquatics (ReefKeeper). :blown: But I do hear about them with Apex. :hmm1:

Don't give up on it yet, just call them and work it out. System computers are very useful. I am still waiting for someone to make an Arduino setup so we can bypass all of these seriously overpriced systems like Apex and D/A sell.
 
nobody will make/sell an arduino based setup because it's open source....I don't think they CAN do that with it.

But you can make it!
 
chimmike said:
nobody will make/sell an arduino based setup because it's open source....I don't think they CAN do that with it.

But you can make it!
Click to expand...

That's what my brother did for me for Christmas. He's not done yet, but what is done works great.
 
When you bought your first computer until now, werent there many times you were just as frustrated? Did you just throw it down and stomp out of the room and say "OMG, like, I'm never touching that thing again! That's the worst purchase I've ever made." Judging by your post I'm betting you have. Multiple times. But yet, here you are, using the computer. Why? Because computers have made their way into people's lives as a necessity. It helps them in everyday life more than they can comprehend.

The APEX is a computer, and it helps people who understand that just as much. This thing isn't just going to fall out of the box, roll over to an outlet and plug itself in and start working, it needs to be set up. Is it hard? That depends on your computer skill level and the willingness to learn.

You chose one of the most difficult hobbies out there by deciding you wanted a reef tank. I don't think I need to go on about how much harder this is compared to keeping a cat. I can't imagine anyone who would think something like the APEX, the piece of equipment that controls all of the equipment would be anything shy from moderately difficult to set up for an average user.

I love my APEX. It took me some time to get mine exactly where I want it. Hell, I may change some code around once a week. I would never even think about having another tank without one.
 
The fact that you payed $1200 for a system that didn't come with required calibration solution, screams f*** you from the manufacturer imo.

Salt
 
I love my Apex but several things about their product are poorly done. Why in this day and age would you build a product that is not WiFi capable? Fortunately my house is on a crawl space and it was easy to hard wire mine to the router but if I was on a slab it would have been impossible.

I just bought a new pH probe. I too was surprised it came without any calibration fluid! Come on Neptune that is just ignorant. Add the price of the calibration fluid to what you are now selling the probe for but don't let one leave your warehouse without calibration fluid.

Write instructions in simple steps and plain English. Don't assume every customer is a computer programmer/IT person. It's been about 3 years since I set mine up but I remember some of the frustrations the OP is going through. Why hasn't progress been made in that length of time.

Great product but I think their lack of competition has made them fat, happy and less consumer friendly than they should be. Eventually someone is going to come along with a better mouse trap and their short comings are likely to bite them on the booty.
 
hogfanreefer said:
....
Great product but I think their lack of competition has made them fat, happy and less consumer friendly than they should be. Eventually someone is going to come along with a better mouse trap and their short comings are likely to bite them on the booty.
Click to expand...

That may be EchoTech. Profilux is great too but more expensive as it's imported to the US. I do love my Apex and very happy I upgraded to it from the reefkeeper.
 
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