high alkalinity!

diggydoo

New member
I have a 75g FOWLR tank that I have had almost a year. The 90# of live rock was cured in the tank without substrate and was from
Drs F & S. Curing was complete in about a month with 3x weekly 50% water changes and to zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I then added the substrate. Substrate started getting large black areas and the water smelled like sulfur, so I added 2 additional powerheads to help increase flow and oxygenation, and added an additional inch of substrate and it has since resolved. I still, however, have nothing on my live rock except slime algae, bubble algae and some hair algae. Since the tank cycled last year, it has been an uphill battle trying to keep the pH, alkalinity and calcium correctly balanced. I initially used C-Balance, but stopped because the alkalinity got too high and began using just the A part. I have since then learned you cannot have high alkalinity and high calcium, oops. I then switched over to TurboCalc and am still having problems. I seem to run into trouble when the pH drops a little (alkalinity is still high though), and I try to add buffer to help with the pH and then the alkalinity skyrockets. I haven't added any buffer for over 2 months, but the alkalinity has only dropped from 7.8 to 6.6 meq/L while the pH dropped from 8.0 to 7.6. I was kind of hoping I could help lower the alkalinity by doing more frequent water changes, but that hasn't seemed to help. I am currently trying to get my reserve water to the have the proper pH, alkalinity and calcium as a little experiment to see if it is even possible and do water changes with that. Before I was only adjusting the pH and the salinity to match that of the main tank. Reserve tank's pH was 7.6, the alkalinity 3.9 and the calcium 200, so I added 3 Tbsp TurboCalc and 2 scoops of Proper pH and tested the next day. pH up to 7.9, alkalinity up to 5.7 and calcium up to 360. Parameters for main tank were temp 74.7, 1.023, pH 7.9 (I prefer it around 8.1-8.2 but alkalinity will get too high), alkalinity 6.4, calcium 240, ammonia <0.30 mg/L, nitrite <0.30 mg/L, and nitrates 25 mg/L. I dosed the tank with 9 tsp of turbocalc today and will test and dose the rest tomorrow. I am hoping the alkalinity will drop as the calcium goes up. I did have trouble with the calcium precipitating on my impellers and everywhere else when both the calcium and alkalinity were high, so I would really like to decrease the alkalinity. I don't know what more to do, I am assuming either I have a problem with our tap water having a high alkalinity, the alkalinity test isn't accurate, or the pH meter is busted (it is pretty new and calibrated regularly). I also tried using a kalkwasser drip to increase the pH, but now know that it also affects the alkalinity. Is having the alkalinity that high a concern? What would be a good way to lower it? I don't have the money now to get an RO unit, but will start using bottled water to see if that helps. The test kits I use for calcium and alkalinity are salifert, the meter a milwaukee. As far as the high nitrates, I am considering adding more substrate as I now understand that the black areas in the substrate were anaerobic areas, but the substrate was too shallow to cover them and was releasing nitrogen gas into the system. Our tap water has a pH of 6.8, alkalinity 4.3 and calcium of 60 ppm.
 
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[welcome]

1st off stop using a pH buffer that is what is raising your alk. and the pH won't stay at 8.2 for long using it.

cal. mag, and alk. all go together. if your mag. is off then that will throw off cal. and alk. if cal. is low then you can get high alk. if cal. is high you can get low alk.

so first off start doing water changes to lower your alk. do not add anything for your pH.

get a mag test kit and find out what your readings are there they should be around 1300ppm or so.

here are a few good articals to get you started.

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems

Low pH: Causes and Cures

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme

A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH
 
I'll try and unravel this
first of all most pH problems are usually a result of carbon dixoxide problems in and around the tank.
Sometimes opening a window over night, adding more air to the skimmmer or venting the air line from the skimmer to the outside of the house will solve the problem
Setting up a refugium with lots of chaeto algae wiill also help if you keep the light on 24/7. Usually it is suggested that you keep the light on reverse from the daytime to help stabilize the natural lows in pH at night because of lack of photosynthesis.
 
You need to make sure your mag levels are 1300ppm in order to stabilize your calcium at 400ppm.
I would suggest getting Kent Tech M--and use the chemical calculator on the first thread of the reef chemistry forum--it will tell you how much you need and how fast you should add it
 
Your alkalinity level will fall on its own if left for a week.
What is your alkalinity in dKH between 8 and as high as 12 is ok.
 
After you have acheived 1300ppm in magnesium you can now bring up your calcium level. I use Kent turbo calcium.
Again check the chemistry calculator and see how much you need and how fast to add it.
Bring it up to 400ppm
 
I have written this in a stage of posts so that you follow the order

having done that you should have your
alk=8-12 dKh
mag=1300
calcium=400

What I would suggest to maintain this is b-ionic two part
By the concentrate and top it up with r/0 water yourself--much cheapter
Add the two part according to the container
Do this for one week
Remeasure your levels
Adjust and repeat for one more week

Repeat the above for one month and you should acheive stability and indirectly your pH will stabilize too

DSC_0054_1.jpg
 
Thanks for all the helpful information. I was thinking maybe the high alkalinity was due to a high CO2 problem around the tank and am planning on routing some tubing from the skimmer into the basement, where I can open the window a crack and nobody will care (it is about 15 degrees F here now). I currenty have a refugium with chaeto but am only running the light at night, I"ll try keeping the light on 24/7. The alkalinity in dKH is 19 right now. Today the pH is at 7.9, alkalinity is down to 6.2 (17.2 dKH), and the calcium is 300. I'll be dosing more calcium today and hopefully that will push the alkalinity down even more. I am just worried it will bottom out and I'll have a pH drop, as this has happened before. I am getting a Magnesium kit and will begin monitoring that. Anyone know where to get salifert test kits for KH/alkalinity? Seems everywhere I look they are out of stock and on backorder. Any suggestions for a good replacement to hold me over? Once my tank is all stabilized, I was planning on using the two part stuff from Bulk Reef Supply (Ca, Mg and Alk). Seems like a good deal, what do you guys think? I would like to keep my calcium around 350 ppm, but I understand I might have to get it higher to get my alkalinity in the desired range, is this thinking correct? I gotta go drill a hole through the floor, just don't tell my mom, thanks!

Shan
 
I would suggest an elos alk kit as salifert has no CS anymore and there alk kits had major probs before they stopped sponsorship here. The two part solution works well from bulk reef, i've been using it for over a year with no problems whatsoever.
 
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