High Nitrates - Immediate Removal?

[Xxero]

I know there are similar posted threads, but I am looking for an immediate removal of nitrates - not a slow, safe possibility.

Anyone out there with first-hand experience of taking high nitrate levels down to zero immediately? Is this even attainable?

The only advised solutions that I can seem to find are water changes, but I don't believe that this is the answer.

Has anyone had any luck with anything else?

ThanX! :bigeyes:

 

[jason2459]

What is the reasoning to attain 0 nitrates instantly?

 

[Xxero]

What is the reasoning to attain 0 nitrates instantly?

Why not?

From what I understand, high nitrate levels are bad for our tank inhabitants. I have high nitrate levels, and I would like them to go away.

So far, over the past 2 weeks for my 40b I have:

* Changed 10 gallons.
* Changed 15 gallons.
* Changed 22 gallons.
* Changed 10 gallons.
* Cut waAay back on feeding.
* Vacuumed my DT sandbed, cleaned all pumps, etc., and cleaned the sump.
* Added a 5 inch DSB to the refugium portion of my sump.
* Added a new bale of Chaeto and Grape Caulerpa to the fuge.
* Added Seachem's Phosguard & De*Nitrate to my filter sock.

...And my nitrate levels haven't budged. Not 1 single ppm.

So aside from a stick of dynamite, I was just wondering if there was a *PooF!* no more Nitrates trick because this is going absolutely nowhere thus far. :mad2:

 

[jason2459]

Except for in a nano tank water changes alone are usually a poor way to control nitrates as they will bounce right back soon after the water change.

 

[biecacka]

What are they currently??
You could purchase a sulfur reactor. I have read that they remove them quickly but not a "poof". But within weeks I believe. Maybe someone who uses or used one can chime in.
I've also seen ARID reactors claim to do this same thing.

Corey

 

[jason2459]

What are your nitrate levels? Do you have a nuisance algae, diatom, cyano issue? High nitrates depending on the levels are not always a problem.

Personally, depending on your level of nitrates, I would look into carbon dosing, algae harvesting which it looks like you're doing, a good skimmer, GAC, and small consistent water changes. If you truly have very high nitrates 60-80+ Then a coil denitrator would help bring the nitrates down fairly quickly.

 

[jason2459]

What are they currently??
You could purchase a sulfur reactor. I have read that they remove them quickly but not a "poof". But within weeks I believe. Maybe someone who uses or used one can chime in.
I've also seen ARID reactors claim to do this same thing.

Corey

ARID reactors are just a form of algae harvesting. Good product but I don't see it any more efficient then any other form of algae harvesting as long as it's setup right. I like the design and good for those with out a sump or limited sump space.

D2mini has one of the best sump chaeto setup's (or he did on his tank he broke down to move.)
http://www.everydayreef.com/blog/2015/6/6/chaetomorpha-algae

Algae Turf Scrubbers are another great way. Easy and cheap to do a DIY water fall or upflow scrubber.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420&page=297

 

[Xxero]

My nitrates read right at 50.

I know they could be much worse, but like I said, that's exactly where they were 2 weeks ago. I implemented all of the above (DSB, clean up, etc.) right from the beginning, and there has been no change. I wasn't necessarily expecting miracles, but at least a few ppm's to give me some encouragement things were heading in the right direction?

I just don't want to continue on with this water changing regimen if it's ultimately not doing anything positive towards reducing my nitrates.

I'm also a little confused with the whole nitrate situation to begin with. The nitrate is in the water, yes? Then how is it possible that I have not removed any of them with all of these water changes; especially if I significantly cut back on feeding and cleaned an already pretty clean system?

I don't get it. Argh.

 

[jason2459]

My nitrates read right at 50.

I know they could be much worse, but like I said, that's exactly where they were 2 weeks ago. I implemented all of the above (DSB, clean up, etc.) right from the beginning, and there has been no change. I wasn't necessarily expecting miracles, but at least a few ppm's to give me some encouragement things were heading in the right direction?

I just don't want to continue on with this water changing regimen if it's ultimately not doing anything positive towards reducing my nitrates.

I'm also a little confused with the whole nitrate situation to begin with. The nitrate is in the water, yes? Then how is it possible that I have not removed any of them with all of these water changes; especially if I significantly cut back on feeding and cleaned an already pretty clean system?

I don't get it. Argh.

You could get a different nitrate kit to double check. The Salifert one is easy and quick. It's also supposed to not be as susceptible to interference from other forms of N like nitrite.

I personally don't like a DSB but many have ran them for years. Do not expect instant results from it though. I also am very much against reduced feedings unless you're dumping in a sheet of frozen and a half a can of pellets at a time.

Water changes are temporary but a good part of a routine to help maintain lowered nitrates.


Some people are religious in removing detritus build up with filter socks and lots of vacuuming. I don't do either and let detritus sit and build up in my sump. Water flow in my display tank keeps it suspended until it goes down my overflow into the sump where it sits and becomes home to many critters.

Nitrate control can take time and once lowered can easily be maintained. It's just getting there in the first place.

I would suggest a sulfur denitrator or similar and it can be built fairly cheaply. Then I would continue with regular water changes. Keep harvesting algae. I would also look into carbon dosing with vinegar, vodka, or the combination of the two.

These below will be the quickest way to reduce nitrates and then maintain them. BTW, you don't actually want 0 nitrates. Life of all kinds needs it along with phosphates. C:N: P is required for all life on earth.

DIY Sulfur denitrator
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1288082
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-01/diy/

Vodka Dosing
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

Vinegar Dosing
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

The combination of the two
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2408985&page=13

A good discussion on the different methods of providing a carbon source for bacteria
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=organic+carbon+dosing

 

[Xxero]

What I feel like happened is that my nitrate levels got high on me. For the life of the tank I have done a minimum of 10% water changes on a weekly basis. I keep all media (filter sponges, etc.) clean and free of detritus. But I believe that I was overfeeding without the correct amount of export to make up for that overfeeding.

Now my situation is that I have these stubborn nitrates. I feel that what I have done recently is too little too late and that I will never be able to remove them. I was just hoping that there was a quick fix to make them go away so that I could start from that zero nitrates point and go on from here.

Am I just spinning my wheels?

 

[Xxero]

Posted this last one before I saw your last reply, Jason.

Thanks a lot, that's good stuff!

In regards to reduced feedings, all I know is that I feel guilty as can be. :sad1:

Thanks again.

 

[jason2459]

I would suggest keeping up with regular water changes and don't go crazy with them. 20-30% monthly seems fine. Some do more and some do less or none at all.

I would also suggest reading this article on water changes in the reef tank.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

 

[jason2459]

FYI, you could just start with the carbon dosing route and see how your system reacts. I suggested the denitrator as it would be faster up front and then you could take it offline once the nitrates are lowered and the carbon dosing is maintaining the lower levels.

 

[toothybugs]

I had a similar issue when I pulled out my sandbed, 30-40ppm for several months. Then they trickled away on their own after a bit once I started vinegar dosing and got some macro going.

At one point, before I added some new sticks, I OD'd vinegar (sorta by accident, sorta not) and my numbers went from 25ppm NO3/ 0.25 PO4 to 5/ 0.03 in a work week's span, but my skimmer HATED me. I was emptying it twice a day for the first couple days. Interestingly my macro started taking off then too, it hadn't done much for me til that point. Now my values are holding pretty constant at 5/ 0.05-0.1 and the system is responding nicely.

I vote be patient. Swift changes are something we should all recognize as generally bad news.

 

[Xxero]

One more thing...

I read this procedure on Melevsreef:

"Example from my 55-gallon Reef : Make up 20 gallons of fresh saltwater in a trashcan in front of your tank. Drain 10 gallons of tank water into the 20 gallons of new water, and let that mix. Pump 10 gallons of that water back into your tank, and let the power heads mix that water up in your tank for a minute or so. Then repeat this three more times. Dispose of the now polluted 20 gallons of water. Make up another 20 gallons of fresh saltwater, and repeat this procedure. As long as your temperature and salinity match the tank, your inhabitants won't be affected adversely, and with each rotation of water, the nitrates are being diluted and removed from your tank.

Simply pulling out all of the water in one massive water change puts stress on your entire tank. Doing small water changes consistently won't bring nitrate levels down. At best, it will maintain them at their current levels. Using the example above, a tank that was at 80ppm would be around 30ppm after a couple of hours work and your population will be happy and unaffected. Once your nitrate levels drop, they are easily kept low with regular water changes, as well as the use of a DSB and macro algae.

Your tank will be healthier, your reef happier and the nitrate problem fixed!"

Do you think this would work?

 

[jason2459]

I'd also check that the alkalinity in the new salt mix matches that of the tank being that aggressive with water changes. Not just the salinity and temp.

It may help. But always think long term on what you'll be able to maintain. I would not look toward water changes alone to maintain low nitrates levels or any other nutrient levels for that matter. It's a good to do and helps but it's not that efficient.

I have no experience in DSB other then the little bit of research I did on them and decided it was not a good option (at least for me). Others will defend it vehemently.

Harvesting algae is a great idea and I'm a big fan of it.

I also vote patience but do research on what you want to do long term to maintain some kind of import and export of elements and nutrients.

 

[Xxero]

Yup. Good stuff. I'll probably read up on the carbon dosing and see how that influence goes.

Thanks again to all of the replies. It's at least made me feel a little better about the situation. :bigeyes:

 

[jason2459]

Yup. Good stuff. I'll probably read up on the carbon dosing and see how that influence goes.

Thanks again to all of the replies. It's at least made me feel a little better about the situation. :bigeyes:

Good luck. You're not alone or an unusual situation. Plenty of people have had and deal with high nitrates. Many much higher then yours. Also, it's not harmful to your fish at all at those levels. High nitrates are not a problem unless you see a problem. No need to rush.

 

[biecacka]

I agree hat the arid reactors are just algae harvesting tools. But the few guys I've read using them, for whatever reason seem to believe hey are having far better results then when trying to just use chaeto in a sump as a stand alone. A few have had such drastic results they feel comfortable possibly going skimmer-less. Just their thoughts in it for sure tho.

Corey

 

[jason2459]

I agree hat the arid reactors are just algae harvesting tools. But the few guys I've read using them, for whatever reason seem to believe hey are having far better results then when trying to just use chaeto in a sump as a stand alone. A few have had such drastic results they feel comfortable possibly going skimmer-less. Just their thoughts in it for sure tho.

Corey

If given proper lighting and flow a sump section based chaeto chamber would work just as well as the arid reactor. d2mini's is a good example of an optimal setup. Chaeto growth is chaeto growth regardless of where it happens. Not a knock on the arid reactor at all as it seems like a good way to grow chaeto giving it light and flow. But its not cheap and does require space. Just a different kind of space so it may fit some people's setup better then others.