High Nitrates - Immediate Removal?

[bertoni]

Nitrate might (or might not) cause problems for some stony corals, but fish, other invertebrates, and soft corals won't much care, especially at only 50 ppm. As you've seen, water changes often fail to help with nitrate problems, since the level can bounce back up very quickly.

You've gotten a lot of suggestions. I'd look at the current feeding level, and maybe consider adding more live rock to the system. Also, coarse substrates, like crushed coral, can accumulate a lot of debris and release a lot of nitrate. I don't know anything about the model of skimmer you listed, but better skimming often helps a lot, too.

How much live rock is in the system, and how much food and what types are going into the tank per day?

 

[biecacka]

Agreed 100% jason. It fits some set ups because it is in a reactor. Someone with limited space it could work well. But as you stated, it isn't cheap at all.

Corey

 

[Xxero]

How much live rock is in the system?

How much food and what types are going into the tank per day?

* I have about 50 lbs of Live Rock (Fiji) and about 80 lbs of sand - 40 in the DT and 40 in the refugium portion of my sump. No crushed coral - CaribSea Hawaiian Black in the DT and Oolite in the fuge.

* For 7 fish and a few inverts, I was feeding 1 frozen cube of Brine shrimp in the morning and either a pinch of flakes or 1/2 a cube of frozen something in the afternoon. Now I am feeding 1/2 a cube in the morning and that's it.

* The protein skimmer is a SCAquariums brand skimmer and I think it kicks butt! I am very pleased with the skimmate production and its overall design.

This tank is about 9 months old. I think what has happened is that my nitrates have steadily been increasing over this period of time, and my weekly 10% water changes have only been pecking away at it. This link that Jason posted was very eye opening in regards to how our water changes actually affect the water:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

After reading this, I believe that I am going to start doing 30% monthly water changes instead of the weekly 10%. I think that it will be more effective considering those graphs. I am also going to give carbon dosing a try and see what that does.

I know that my current inhabitants are okay with the nitrate levels being where they're at, but I want to get these levels down before I add anything new to the tank. I've just been doing all of these water changes, etc. for the last 2 weeks seeing no results whatsoever, and I didn't like the thought that it could possibly be months before I could add anything new.

I'm a little more optimistic now, but admittedly frustrated. :headwalls:

Thank you guys!

 

[jason2459]

Keep in mind the Author of that article does 1% daily automatic water changes along with vinegar dosing.

 

[Xxero]

Keep in mind the Author of that article does 1% daily automatic water changes along with vinegar dosing.

Yes. And with further reading and a little more research, I have realized that I am not quite finished beating this horse. I almost wish I would have titled this thread, "Has Anyone Ever Had 50+ Nitrate Readings - What Did You Do To Get Rid Of Them - And How Long Did It Take You?"

1. Was I overfeeding? This is how nitrates are introduced into your water, correct? Food + Fish + Digestion = Pee & Poop = Ammonia then Nitrite then Nitrate = Nitrate Removal? If I wasn't overfeeding, then that can only mean that I haven't had adequate nitrate removal processes, yes? Either: not enough Live Rock/Sand; not large enough water changes; not carbon dosing; not enough macro-algae growth/harvesting, etc. or not enough all of the above?

BUT, I have been changing 5 gallons of water every week. According to set-up charts/calculators, I have enough Live Rock & sand. My skimmer works great. I clean routinely. My Diamond Watchman Goby keeps the DT sand pristine. I don't have Cheech & Chong Chaeto growth, but it grows and I remove. I have never carbon dosed, but to be honest with you, I had never even heard of carbon dosing until only here recently. I still just don't get it. How they got that high and why I can't get rid of them.

2. Is it true that I shouldn't add anything new to my tank until I get these nitrates down? No more fish additions...I'm good on fish. I'm talking LPS, softies, etc. I feel like that if I so much as plopped a mushroom in there that it would shrivel up and die. That seems to be how much emphasis is being placed on having as close to zero nitrates as possible. Is this true? I feel that it is, and so here I am.

3. I would like this 40b to be a mixed reef tank. Right now, it is 3 rocks and a handful of devoted little fish. I'm not really in any kind of hurry for that full, mature reef tank, but at the same time, I am at the 9 month mark with this aquarium and I feel like I am at a standstill. It's a little frustrating when you see other equal sized tanks, at say the 4 month mark, and it is chop full of saucer sized Monti caps and flourishing LPS. Again, I just don't get it.

For now, I'm just going to stop and relax. I'm going to continue to do my normal water changes, cut back a little on feeding, and hopefully watch a few of my new implementations take some kind of effect: DSB, more macros, Phosguard and De*nitrate. Maybe I'll start singing to my 3 rocks in a box in hopes of lifting their spirits thus increasing their nitrate consumption. :bigeyes:

 

[tmz]

For poof in two weeks a diy sufur dentirator worked for me on large sytem. Might be a bit much for a small system. Cost about $100 to build including media.

I have maintained nitrates in a very heavily fed sytem to around 0.2ppm to udetectable per Salifert for about 6 years via vodka and vinegar dosing after dropping them with the denitrator which is no longer in use.

 

[Xxero]

For poof in two weeks a diy sufur dentirator worked for me on large sytem. Might be a bit much for a small system. Cost about $100 to build including media.

I have maintained nitrates in a very heavily fed sytem to around 0.2ppm to udetectable per Salifert for about 6 years via vodka and vinegar dosing after dropping them with the denitrator which is no longer in use.

I think that I will give things 2 more weeks and see if the nitrates begin to drop. If not, then I will definitely give this a try. Is this a good start for a DIY Sulfur Denitrator, Tom:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1288082

And thanks, btw! :bigeyes:

 

[bertoni]

That design seems to be okay to me.

 

[droog]

Adding a MarinePure block to your sump may have been easier/more effective than a deep sand bed. Those things have a very high surface area for biological filtration and can allow you to take some rock out of the DT if you need/want to.

The DT is 40g? How big is the sump?

The DSB should work too though, not sure its worth replacing one with the other. I would expect to wait a month or so for either one to start doing its thing.

-droog

 

[tmz]

I think that I will give things 2 more weeks and see if the nitrates begin to drop. If not, then I will definitely give this a try. Is this a good start for a DIY Sulfur Denitrator, Tom:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1288082

And thanks, btw! :bigeyes:

Yes, that's the one I followed

You are welcome.

 

[Xxero]

Adding a MarinePure block to your sump may have been easier/more effective than a deep sand bed. Those things have a very high surface area for biological filtration and can allow you to take some rock out of the DT if you need/want to.

The DT is 40g? How big is the sump?

The DSB should work too though, not sure its worth replacing one with the other. I would expect to wait a month or so for either one to start doing its thing.

-droog

Yeah, I had the same thought (afterwards, of course). And I still might add one if things don't improve. I'm getting ready to do a test just for giggles. I'm kind of interested in the statistics of this thing.

The sump is a 20g long - I would say that it adds a little over 10 more gallons to the system. The refugium chamber is in the middle, and it's deceptively big. That is where I added the DSB, and it was large enough to hold 40 lbs of sand and still have about 5-6 inches of water above it. I am already finding this addition pretty interesting as well. My pod population in there has boomed, and that is not something I was expecting. Tiny bubbles are starting to come up through the sand, and I'm hoping that's nitrate being released in its gas form. And my sump Emerald crab seems to like the beach life.

I've calmed down now, and I'm even beginning to appreciate this little reef challenge. It's good brain food. I'll test and post a couple of pics. Maybe that will give me something to do. :bigeyes:

 

[Ontheway]

Yup. Good stuff. I'll probably read up on the carbon dosing and see how that influence goes.

Thanks again to all of the replies. It's at least made me feel a little better about the situation. :bigeyes:

Have you check your PO4 levels? In lack of phosphate, denitrification may fail. Advise to use Hanna ultra low checker.
And for chaeto growing, please see my harvest. I have my own Arid reactor *grin*

 

[droog]

Yeah, I had the same thought (afterwards, of course). And I still might add one if things don't improve. I'm getting ready to do a test just for giggles. I'm kind of interested in the statistics of this thing.

The sump is a 20g long - I would say that it adds a little over 10 more gallons to the system. The refugium chamber is in the middle, and it's deceptively big. That is where I added the DSB, and it was large enough to hold 40 lbs of sand and still have about 5-6 inches of water above it. I am already finding this addition pretty interesting as well. My pod population in there has boomed, and that is not something I was expecting. Tiny bubbles are starting to come up through the sand, and I'm hoping that's nitrate being released in its gas form. And my sump Emerald crab seems to like the beach life.

I've calmed down now, and I'm even beginning to appreciate this little reef challenge. It's good brain food. I'll test and post a couple of pics. Maybe that will give me something to do. :bigeyes:

Thats a good ratio of sump space to DT. It should give you enough flexibility to pick a method that suits.

I enjoy tinkering too, and have automated most things. Now my tank always seems to do better when left alone...

-droog

 

[biecacka]

Any pics of that arid reactor?

Corey

 

[Xxero]

1/07/2016 - Parameters & Pics

1/07/2016 - Parameters & Pics

PARAMETERS:

SG = 1.26
ph = 8.2
alk = 13 (?)
cal = 480 - 500 (?)
mag = 1320
ammonia = 0
nitrite = 0
nitrate = 35
phos = 1

I think I have been misreading the nitrates at 50. I believe they have been closer to 35 this whole time. BUT, that is what they have been the entire time from day 1 of this current high nitrate issue. And unfortunately, this is where they remain......grrrrrr!

Calcium seems high and so does alk...all tests are Red Sea except for phosphates which is API. I use Instant Ocean Reef Crystals for salt.

PICS:

Sump Dog. :bigeyes:

 

[jason2459]

IMO nitrates over 10 are high but not necessarily an issue unless you visually see an issue. To me from the pictures it does not look like an issue. If your corals brown or you get algae or cyano in the display then I would look at nitrates being a part of the issue.

Either way I would look to reduce them in the long term which I think you're trying already.

On the other hand if that black sand is basalt you could face diatom issues if silicate leaches out. Or other issues if other minerals leach out. Never know with black sand. Running a magnet through the sand and if any of it attaches you know there's some iron in there as well.

 

[Xxero]

On the other hand if that black sand is basalt you could face diatom issues if silicate leaches out. Or other issues if other minerals leach out. Never know with black sand. Running a magnet through the sand and if any of it attaches you know there's some iron in there as well.

It's the Caribsea Hawaiian Black Arag-Alive. I haven't seen any issues with it except for the initial diatom dusting at set-up. I haven't found it to be magnetic either, so I think we're good to go there.

In full disclosure, I usually rely more on the tank's inhabitants to let me know when things are going South. I had a Maxima clam, a Goniopora, and an Elegance coral die on me, and all within about a 2 month period. I had the Maxima and Goniopora for about 4-5 months, and both were doing great. First went the clam, then the Elegance, and finally the Flowerpot. All 3 deaths had many possibilities (including being added to an immature tank, IMO), but that is what brought me around to testing the water. I have heard that clams, Elegance, and Goni's won't tolerate high nitrates, but then I have also heard that all 3 like dirtier water. So many contradictions. I have kept a good group of fish in there and fed them well because I thought this would be beneficial for the clam, Elegance, and Goni but it appears that it backfired on me without having enough of an export system set in place.

Anyway, now that those are gone the fish are on a diet and I'm going to get these elements straightened out. I'm curious to see how it all goes.

Thanks for all of the input! :bigeyes:

 

[bertoni]

I agree that the black Arag-Alive should be fine if it's not too coarse. Coarse substrates can accumulate a lot of debris. I liked the look of it, and almost went that way for one of my tanks.

 

[Xxero]

The stated grain size range is 0.25 - 3.5mm. I have a Diamond Watchman Goby who sifts it from the time he wakes until the time he sleeps with no apparent problems. This is my second tank using the Hawaiian Black, and I really like the look of it as well.

When I noticed the high nitrates and began a thorough cleaning, I tumble vacuumed the sandbed during one of the many water changes. I had only vacuumed it once in 9 months, so I was expecting a lot of nastiness to be found there. Nothing! I would wager the Diamond Watchman turns that sandbed over 20 times a day. :bigeyes:

 

[Xxero]

I just realized that I forgot the zero in my specific gravity reading. It is of course 1.026 and not 1.26! A little embarrassing considering my user name. :facepalm: