High Solar Gain Low E Glass Windows (Sunroom)

[karimwassef]

thanks! Looks great for keeping the heat out, but it also cuts the blue and UV pretty early.

I want to go as far into blue and UV as possible but cut out as much of the IR and heat as possible.

 

[d-man]

Nice. I like the sketch up effect there.

 

[karimwassef]

I think I found it...

http://www.ppgideascapes.com/getmed...21edf0/16398-Monolithic-Data-Sheet-(7083).pdf

AZURIA glass from PPG looks high on UV (~50%) and low on SHGC (~50%).

 

[karimwassef]

Nice. I like the sketch up effect there.

Thanks. I didn't know you could dial in your location and it simulates the sun based on date and time.

Making the design work for max sunlight during both summer and winter solstice as well as the spring rising position... It would have taken so much longer without sketchup.

 

[drauka99]

you are going to need a TON of supplemental atntic to make that look like most peoples reef tank. As said you will get a lot of growth but the sun is very powerful and you will have a very yellow looking tank.

 

[karimwassef]

I have two strips of blue LED per side at 300W each for 1.2KW of BLUE/UV LED.

There's also two 400W MH in each side for supplemental winter lighting and that'll be 20,000K

 

[AquaTDV]

Great job on the illustrations this tank is going to be amazing!!

I've had some experience with this on my 240 (8x2x2) which adjacent to it I have east facing windows that are 10'x12'. In the morning I would get about 3 hrs of the intense sunlight on the tank. The light was so bright it would make my then 400 watt 6500k Iwasakis look dim, and during certain times of the year I would have to reduce my MH photo period because my corals would turn brown from too much light. At that time I wasn't running actinics and this was over a decade ago so the SPS I was growing weren't nearly as numerous and particular with their light requirements as they are now. Since them I added light filters to the windows which reduces the incoming light to only 20% of the original amount, and it still lights up the tank... I would recommend having a way to control the light you are going to receive.

 

[karimwassef]

Good point. The sunlight is uncontrolled. I guess I was expecting to supplement light vs. adding a filter to reduce it.

The light from the sides goes through the 0.5" of starphire.

 

[ReefWreak]

If you haven't watched them yet, Mike Paletta's discussion in the American Reef video cast (youtube) on his new tank in his solarium room in his house might help clarify some of the questions you have. He feels pretty confident with having just a few small skylights and a nice side window behind the tank.

I do have to say this thread is fantastic, your information is fantastic, and I can't wait to see where this goes. I've long dreamed about an efficient solar-lit tank (with some supplemental light for blues) since growing up in FL and seeing some outdoor coral farms in person. Subbed!

 

[karimwassef]

Yes. I've watched his posts.

His use of his solar room seems involuntary!!

I agree that when even a little bit of sun shines on my current tank, it makes my 400W MH look like shadow.

My tank is intentional and has been on my mind for a decade. I love the reaction of all animals to real sunlight and I'm willing to add the additional blue to compensate.

I think the browning is the result of a few factors:

First, our windows and glass block most of the UV, not just blue. In nature, blue penetrates deepest. That's the purpose of this thread to find the best greenhouse glass for blue and block IR.

Second, the corals we get have usually been under artificial conditions. The ones in nature do have more brown in them.

Third, water quality and diet. The coloration is not just a function of light, but of all conditions that impact coral tissue. I think with high solar lighting, the amount of calcium, alkalinity, mg, and bio available food + nutrients needs to be stepped up to match...

The risk here is to avoid turning this into a forest of algae. Sunlight is very very potent. And to get real coloration, the corals need a plentiful supply of food too. Keeping this import of energy and biological food going requires extraordinary export mechanisms.

That's why I've been toying with the idea of a full mangrove planter outside the house to consume any excess.

 

[ReefWreak]

I tend to agree with your points about the browning.

I imagine there is a formula that divers on the reef know when picking corals to bring into the trade/hobby of what ends up looking nice under artificial light. None of us know because we've never been in the position, so it's hard to say what they'll look like when they go back to natural light.

I also tend to agree with your assessment of more light = more everything else. I've been thinking that the reason I don't have algae in my tank is largely that I've been pushing calcium and alkalinity to large corals which are effectively out-competing algae for nutrients, so hence why I haven't ever really had any algae issues. As a caveat, I started my tank with a fuge to provide algal competition for nutrients, and then once the corals started taking off, I took that offline and let the corals uptake nutrients themselves. I'm still always debating whether my nutrient load is too high, just right, or not enough, having never shown >0ppm for nitrate. So I'm always exploring that. But the point of that whole anecdote is that I definitely understand your point about competition, and how someone is going to use that light to uptake nutrients, so hopefully it's either intentional macro algae or coral growth, but you definitely don't want bryopsis or other turf algaes invading the main tank.

I wonder if you have a fuge or other place that you want algae to grow to compete with the display, if you covered the display tank for the first month or so while the tank is cycling, and let the grow-out section do it's thing with controlled algae. That way the mass is established back there, and then you can uncover the display and it shouldn't grow as much algae where you don't want it.

 

[karimwassef]

Yes. I was planning on several algae export mechanisms. All three actually...

I will have a sump fuge, somewhat for export, but mostly for pod cultivation.

I also plan on having a waterfall algae turf scrubber outside (also sunlit) in a greenhouse setting.

The final experiment is a mangrove or other terrestrial plant based hydroponic grow out planter that uses sunlight in a greenhouse to absorb the remaining nutrients.

Each has its benefits and drawbacks.

My biggest concern is the freezes we experience in Dallas. I'm not a gardner, but my neighbors have a greenhouse so I was going to practice by offering my services in exchange for learning

I'm ok with big systems, but this will be much bigger than my current 660gal.

Here's my youtube posts and thread for some background there.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hQNaqlz05fo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/E5BsQBH_Fno" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vAqrv-yiuT8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ae9YUvq68lg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It shows my surge and skimmer and other little gadgets working.

The one called "afternoon energy" actually shows the sunlight on the tank. It's amazing how bright that little sideways glint of light at a low angle is.

 

[karimwassef]

here's some equipment

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aDFeZ4ZPxrw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dmvs2wrmPro" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7WOPeaqThls" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[atreis]

DIY actuated gate valve - very cool... What's it for though? Gate valves can require quite a lot of force to move if there's much flow. Most people use ball valves for this reason, but obviously that'd be harder to DIY automate.

Mangroves can be very effective for nutrient export - also, you could pretty easily do a sunlit algae scrubber.

Something to consider at some point: movable blinds on the windows, should you need to cut back the lighting. That'd allow more options than film on the windows.

 

[karimwassef]

I wasn't planning on either blinds or film. Still haven't accepted the need for less vs more light. I was thinking of a retractable canopy over the tank in case I did need to reduce light.

The gate valve actuator has a force of 225lb. It would break my finger if it closed up on it and can literally pick me up off the ground. I use it today in my actuated bubble free surge (visible in some of the vids).

Yes. The waterfall ATS will be an outside feature, as will the mangrove grove (been waiting to say that). There's actually other salt water export plants too.

Back to the glass though. Does anyone have experience with AZURIA? The stats look great. It's a blue tinted glass with decent IR reduction but I have no experience.

Also any other advice from greenhouse keepers or sunroom owners?

 

[Windy2]

I had planned a greenhouse for coral growout, but gave it up due to the introduction of LEDs. My biggest planning problem was how to remove the excess heat form the greenhouse in the summer. How will you handle the heat and humidity concerns that will be there. Everything in a greenhouse becomes wet and must be rust proof and moisture resistant.

 

[karimwassef]

I had that issue with my current system. It's in my garage and I lose >5gal per day into the air.

In the summer, I use a window AC to cool and dehumidify. In the winter, I use a dedicated dehumidifier.

I also have an exhaust fan at the top.

In this case, I plan to use my home HVAC and size it to cool and remove enough humidity.

 

[karimwassef]

hmmm. sharing the data - anyone disagree with the selection of Azuria?

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0_zpstmcgubbg.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0_zpstmcgubbg.png" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zpstmcgubbg.png"/></a>

 

[ReefWreak]

Your choice makes sense from the prior data sheets (and your nicely consolidated one ^^).

I still think you'll have waaaay more light than necessary, but that's perfect as long as you can keep the heat out. Better to have to keep a drape/canopy over the tank than have to add a bunch of supplementary lights.

Onward and upward!

 

[karimwassef]

I have to keep reminding myself that 68% of sunlight is 100x better than artificial light.

By the way, in terms of supplemental UV/RB LEDs, the new multi chip 100W-200W look amazingly compact. I plan on adding 1000W of each (2000W). 500W on each side using 20 x 100W multi chips.

The cost is $1800, not including the chiller to keep the CoolSlimStrips(TM) - yes, just trademarked it . They'll be 8 ft long x 1" wide aluminum square strips with 5 multi chips each.

That way they'll have a very slim profile to avoid blocking the sunlight. I'm looking at liquid cooling with a game computer water heat exchanger.

I think 2000W UV/RB should bring the blue pop back.

Any thoughts on placement? I was thinking off to the sides, but angled to point at the tank top? But given that the sun shines in from an angle too except for midday, maybe right over?