Hippo Tang has Ich for 3 weeks now!

[JurisHP]

I started this post a few weeks ago, and I am still not having ANY luck whatsoever with my Ich problem. The Hippo is the only fish in the tank that has it. The others are very healthy and getting bigger, with no signs of Ich whatsoever. Interestingly, in the morning, the Tang is totally covered. By the end of the day, it looks like it is gone, but is right back the next morning. I have tried Kick Ich-no effect whatsoever. I do regular water changes, and the levels are exactly where they should be. The temp is around 79-80. Although the Ich has been on the Hippo for a while now, he is still swimming freely, gets defensive when necessary, and eats every time I feed. he does not hide and has no signs of weakness. I have also tried treating the food with garlic. Any suggestions? Can this go on forever? I cannot remove him from my tank----it's 180 gallons with 275# LR.

 

[JHemdal]

This is a relatively common issue with fish in larger reef tanks (and in particular, with tangs). The Cryptocaryon will come and go, even on a daily basis like you are seeing. Think of this like a balancing act - if things shift one way on another, the Crypt. will either explode into a full-blown infection, or it will go into a latent state. I firmly believe that many "reef safe" cures are used by people, and then if the things shift (on their own) to the latency side of the equation, the person reports that it "cured" their fish. On the other hand, if these unproven medications are used, and the Crypt. becomes acute, the aquarist is likely to respond with, "Ah, I just didn't catch it soon enough..."...rather than blaming some snake-oil medication. Never add a product to your aquarium that does not list ingredients, especially if directly contacting the company doesn't get you that info. In-tank studies of garlic have not (to my knowledge) been performed - it is all petri dish work, and stuff extrapolated from human med.

Assuming that no amount of trickery will get that tang out of the tank, I would do this:

1) Add no new fish (obviously)
2) Set your skimmer to run really "wet" - to help trap tomites
3) Use a UV (if you already have one, don't invest in one)
4) Wait and see



Jay

 

[JurisHP]

I do have a UV, but it isn't running yet, because it was suggested to me that my tank needs to be very well-established before I use it. My tank cycled at the beginning of August---is it too soon for the UV in your opinion?

 

[JHemdal]

No - the UV light will have zero affect on the beneficial bacteria residing within your live rock, and other surfaces. Likewise, it will have zero affect on any Crypt. trophonts attached to the fish (that's why I didn't want you to go out and buy one). The UV light *may* (if it is sized correctly) help kill a few free-swimming Crypt. tomites, so it won't hurt to fire it up. But get that skimmer collecting lots of watery foam as well - just remember to replace the water you are collecting with mixed up seawater, not freshwater, and be certain that if your skimmer gets set too high, that the skimmate runs back into your sump and not out onto your floor.

Jay

 

[JurisHP]

What do you mean by the water I am collecting? Do you mean when I do a water change, or something skimmer-related? How do I set my skimmer to do anything other than what it's doing now? It's an ASM 3.

 

[JHemdal]

No, I mean the water your skimmer should collect when it is set to produce "wet foam". I've not worked with an ASM, but with ETSS skimmers, you just throttle back the water release valve. On downdraft skimmers, you either adjust their height, or increase the air flow. Bascially, the idea is that if a skimmer is set to collect lots of wet foam, it will remove more POC (particulate organic carbon) at the same time - including some Crypt. tomites. Will it elminate Crypt.? NO - but it can help.

Jay

 

[Albanets202]

From what you describing I suspect tha something stresses him at night. Temp/pH swings too big? What is your pH at night?

 

[JHemdal]

Actually, there is nothing to indicate that a stressor at a certain time of the day will result in an increase in the population of an ectoparasite at another time of day, or even what the time lag for that might be.
There are two things at work with chronic Crypt. outbreaks - there is often a cyclical nature to the parasites, in the beginning, it is common for them to all be "in sync" and drop off the host at nearly the same time, and their progeny returning to the host(s) at about the same time. For long term cases such as this, I suspect that tangs (since they often "hole up" at night, or at least don't swim as much) serve as better attachment points for any tomites that happen to be active then. The same tomites during the day are more likely to get blown loose by scratching, or simply the movement of the fish through the water.

IMO - acute stress is actually highly overrated as a cause of extoparasite problems in marine fish. Two things are MUCH more important - the introduction of the parasite into the system itself and the low level chronic stress that really all captive marine fishes experience to one degree or another. Acute stress such as temperature change, bullying, pH shifts, etc. are much less of an issue, unless they are so extreme as to cause mordidity themselves.


Jay

 

[JHemdal]

double post

 

[JurisHP]

to be honest I don't check my ph at all, mostly bc my probe is broken (new one coming). Assuming my ph is off, how do I get it to acceptable levels? I do regular water changes and all levels/temp in my 180 gallon reef tank w/refugium are within normal parameters.

 

[limitdown]

Even if you get your water ph/temp/quality/chemistry 100% perfect that still won't eradicate the parasite from your tank.

I've tried every single so-called "reef-safe" ich medicine on the market and from my experience, none of those work. Not only did I flush $200+ into the toilets, a few fish died because of delayed treatment.

There is no easy solution to the problem, the only treatment methods are a pain in the butt.

Solution 1) move every single fish to a quarantine tank and use hyposalinity or administer copper for 4-6wks (I prefer Seachem's Cupramine). Also drop in a few pieces of live rock into the QT. Leave the tank fish fishless for 6-8wks. Ich cannot survive very long without having a fish as a host.

Solution 2) move every coral, invert and most of your live rock into a separate tank. Do hyposalinity on the main display tank for 6wks.

 

[mhills16]

lets just say that you want to use cupramine in the dt, will it effect the live rock or bio filtration? also, will it cause the bristle worms and peanut worms to die off?? and any small micro starfish, will they die, since they will be impossible to remove.
thanks mike

 

[sunfish11]

I have found having cleaner gobies in the tank helps releave the occasional boughts of ich that my achilles tang gets. He loves cleaner gobies and cleaner shrimp.

He develped ich twice. The first time was after about a week in the tank (last Dec) and once more recently when I neglected water changes and wasn't consistant on their feeding schedule for 5 weeks (busy summer). I went back to my normal routine of weekly water changes and became very consistant with getting the fish their seaweed in the afternoon and feeding them morning and night as well and it has gone away again. Of course he was the only fish (I have 3 other tangs as well) to get the ich. So to ME it seems that stress over time brings it on. I make them very happy with lot's of food and clean water and it seems to go away. Removing my Achilles and treating him would probably be worse that the disease because the hospital tank would make him crazy.

Lisa