Hippo Tang Ich?

[chatyak]

G'Day All,

I purchased a baby hippo tang and it appears healthy and ich free. However I do have a question...

I see it breathing fast (stress, juvenile, new surroundings, etc..) and I wanted to know... if this kind of stress will bring out the ich in the fish IF it has any?

Anotherwords, if it did have ich, would it be showing sometime soon after all the fiascal of acclimation, new tank, etc.. It's in quarantine of course.... and I have PraziPro and Cupramine ready in case.. but just wanted to know if it doesn't show any signs of ich after being really stressed - it should be ich free?

My main tank is ich free as it went fallow for 3 months.

Thank You,

 

[jenglish]

A very stressed tang should show a bloom of ich if it had a subclinical infection. Some folks think that you should proactively treat even with no signs of ich. Seems like too big of a risk but that may just be me. Kinda like giving chemo because you smoke I would continue to watch it over several weeks just to make sure.

 

[chatyak]

That was my feeling as well. I have heard of preventive treatments but I don't know enough science behind it as to whether or not it was is bad. Cupramine is less toxic and highly effective at lower doses I know that... and can easily be removed with carbon.

I don't know if Prazipro has any negative effects.

Anyways it's been in the QT for a couple days now... I haven't got it to eat the nori just yet.. it poked at it once or twice.. but it eats flakes, mysis, and bloodworms. I will try to soak in garlic soon.

 

[sgwill122]

Since you have it in quarantine I would move to a somewhat hypo salinity, it is easier on the fish and if ich manifests it is quicker/easier to get the salinity down to treat it. I would target 1.020.

 

[chatyak]

My understanding is that 1.020 is no where near hypo... I ran hypo at 1.008 - 1.009 and that did cure ich on the last acquired ones.. but it was too long of a process.. 3 months in total, rather just use cupramine this time.

 

[kikireef]

I could be wrong but I think hyposalinity is only effective if you get it down to the level of 1.009. I am going off of ReefKeepers thread on the newbie forum. Its permanently posted at the top of that forum if you want to check it out.

 

[jenglish]

technically anything under 1.023 or so is hypo, but 1.020 will not kill ich or even slow it down much. It will just be hard on the fish (it makes it harder to expel wastes, not easier). If you are looking to increase stress in hopes of getting it to bloom then it would work for that I don't reccomend that course of action though.

 

[chatyak]

Yea that would a be a "stress test" to bring out the ich... I think it would show now or soon if it does have it. Since my main tank is ich free I want it to stay that way.. no outbreaks.

 

[chatyak]

Ok I have a problem.


My QT tank was running on a small sponge filter I had - I recently got a bigger one and placed it in the sump of my main tank for 2 days, then placed it in my QT tank alongside the smaller sponge... I just got rid of the smaller sponge but threw some live rock in the QT just to help seed the bigger sponge faster, then I will be tossing those pieces of rock once I remove them (before any meds).

I see two fine white spots on the hippo, looks like grain of white sand... it is still breathing fast on day 4/5...

....but those spots could be a grain of rock/particle stuck to the fish as well yes? Can particles stick to a fish? (rock debris, etc..) It is eating well and isn't scratching that i can see... although perhaps it's gills are infected? Color looks great.. just fast breathing and 2 white dots. I'm feeding mysis /nori that I soak in garlic / flakes / pellets (won't eat those) / bloodworms / brine shrimp.

.. my gut feeling tells me otherwise though... I wanted to treat with prazipro then cupramine..

Should I begin treatment with cupramine regardless? How much would this harm the fish if it was healthy anyways?

I also have a maxijet 900 in the QT.. is this too much flow/ stress for a juvenile hippo? Should I just let the sponge filter with big air bubbles be enough?

 

[tmz]

The fast breathing loss of appetite etc. often indicate ich. It takes a while for the parasite to work it's way out of the fish ,eating flesh along the way. Once the spots show the fish often appears to be more lively. However, with a few days to weeks those parasites go to bottom or rocks and encyst; multiply 200to 300 fold and hit the fish again. There is no stress test for ich .If it is present and it will attack healthy and weakened fish unless they have some degree of immunity form prior exposure. Even those that do will host the parasite indefinitely but not necessarily forever in the mouth, nostrils and gills . I don't know what sub clincical means .

I would treat your paracanthurus heppatus with cupramine . Alternatively the tank transfer method can be used with no meds.

The reason hypo is at 1.009sg is because that is as low as you can go without harming or killing the fish which has an internal salinity of about 1.008. Some strains of ich (crytocaryon irritans) are resistant to even 1.009. While marine fish maintain their internal salinity at 1.008 in higher salinities by drinking copiously and passing relatively little concentrated urine, they have no means to expel excess fluids which diffuse into them in salinities lower than 1.008. This excess hydration throws off their homeostasis and can kill them over a period of time.

 

[gooyferret]

I have a hippo tang and it didnt show any signs of ich for a month. Then I was moving rocks and must have stressed him out, and he had ich the next day. I pulled him out and started copper treatment and has been doing great for 2 weeks and have seen no sign of ich since QT. HTH

 

[chatyak]

Yes thanks TMZ. I did use hypo on previous fish (10 weeks at 1.008) and it worked well.. with another few weeks to raise salinity, however that method took realllyyyyyyyyyy long.

I would prefer to use the cupramine I bought (along with the seachem copper test kit).

Should I start treating anyways or will this damage the fish even more (considering copper suppresses the immune system and it's nervous to begin with)?

 

[chatyak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15273697#post15273697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gooyferret
I have a hippo tang and it didnt show any signs of ich for a month. Then I was moving rocks and must have stressed him out, and he had ich the next day. I pulled him out and started copper treatment and has been doing great for 2 weeks and have seen no sign of ich since QT. HTH

What copper did you use?

 

[tmz]

I prefer to use Cupramine over hyposalinity. A long period of 1.009 sg may actually do harm ,especially to the kidneys which won't be working very much at ll during the treatment.
Just fyi tank transfer requires at least two tanks . The fish is moved every 3 days to a tank of new water for a total of four transfers. The tank and all equipment must be thoroughly dried after each occupancy or the tank can be filled with fresh water and left for at least three hours to kill the cysts on surfaces . The qt tanks should generally be bare except for a few pieces of pvc for resting places ,a heater and some aeration. This method effectively ensures all the parasites have left the fish and none of the cysts have time to reinfect. You still need to watch ammonia but with light feeding and only a 3 day stay it should not be a big problem.Capture for transfer is relatively easy on you and the fish in a qt tank

 

[chatyak]

Yes I've heard of that.. hmm... it's an idea... I think i'll stick with cupramine for this round. Should I wait for more "white dots" to appear or should I start treatment regardless? Just wondering if the dot is pre-mature to take action... although I can use prazipro without any ill effects.. I could start with that.

I'll give the LR a few more days to help seed the larger sponge faster, then get rid of those rocks and start cupramine later this week if I see more dots? What do you think?

 

[chatyak]

bump