Hippo Tang in QT for 2 weeks

[mkjohnson1990]

Howdy All,

I recently purchased a few fish from the Petco sale (ROOKIE MISTAKE)...then put them straight into my display tank (TRIPLE ROOKIE MISTAKE). Long story short, they got velvet and died the next day. Shortly after, my hippo tang started showing early signs of Ich (or what I thought could also be velvet), I made the decision to break down my 100 gal and quarantine the fish.

The hippo tang is in a 30 gal QT with its tankmates of over a year and seems stable but not progressing. Here are all the specs I can think of

• Various hiding spots to reduce stress
• Temp: 78'
• Ammonia: 0
• Copper: 0.25 for 2 weeks now
• Stock: 2 Clowns, Domino Damsel, Zebra Damsel
• No Lights on tank for about 5 days

The Hippo tang seems to have small welts all over her body which have not been improving as well as poor coloration, the "salty" signs of ich are no longer present but I am worried this could be a different issue. My question is why is she not improving if she has been in the copper for two weeks, and if I get to the end of the four weeks and nothing has changed, do I put her back in the display tank? I wonder if this is just from stress? Thank you in advance for the help everyone!

 

[crissie]

paling and welts would usually be a sign of one of these - clicky (I do love the simplicity of these things). You can check the symptoms and see treatment methods.

In answer to your question - if it's something other than Ich copper wont help so she wont improve.

 

[mkjohnson1990]

paling and welts would usually be a sign of one of these - clicky (I do love the simplicity of these things). You can check the symptoms and see treatment methods.

In answer to your question - if it's something other than Ich copper wont help so she wont improve.

Thanks for the reply Chrissie, I do know she had ich initially, as she was rubbing on everything and had the salty effect. I am trying to decide the position I take with her, setup a smaller tank and start treatment for this other disease possibly?

 

[crissie]

Thanks for the reply Chrissie, I do know she had ich initially, as she was rubbing on everything and had the salty effect. I am trying to decide the position I take with her, setup a smaller tank and start treatment for this other disease possibly?

If all of the symptoms match Uronema then I would treat the hippo for it and assume all the fish in the QT have it but the symptoms aren't yet showing.

Personally I would treat them all, just in case. I don't usually like to say treat just in case, but Brook and Uronema are nasty and require quick treatment once the symptoms are there.

A fresh water dip should show whether it's Brook/Uronema, there would be lots of parasites that the copper wont have treated.

 

[mkjohnson1990]

If all of the symptoms match Uronema then I would treat the hippo for it and assume all the fish in the QT have it but the symptoms aren't yet showing.

Personally I would treat them all, just in case. I don't usually like to say treat just in case, but Brook and Uronema are nasty and require quick treatment once the symptoms are there.

A fresh water dip should show whether it's Brook/Uronema, there would be lots of parasites that the copper wont have treated.

I read through the symptoms and didnt see anything mentioned about these bumps. I do not see any sort of fungal "cottony" material on her. Also, the coloring seems better now that I turned the lights on her for a while (She is probably just pale due to low lighting in the QT). With the lights on i can see that these bumps have become much more prevelent and are in the dozens. I cannot see anything protruding from the skin, so it must be some sort of internal parasite?

 

[crissie]

If they're bumps rather than welts it would be something different, are they white or is it something under the skin?

 

[mkjohnson1990]

If they're bumps rather than welts it would be something different, are they white or is it something under the skin?

Not the best pic but the dang fish is fast! you can get an idea from this image about the size of the bumps but the image definitely does not show how many of them there are.

 

[crissie]

Although I haven't actually seen it for a long time (so I may be getting confused!) that looks like lymphocystis to me.

 

[snorvich]

If those are "blackish bumps", could be black ich (which is not ich at all). If so, prazipro would be the indicated treatment. By the way, lymphocystis will look whitish and be like cauliflower in appearance; I do not see anything like that in the picture.

 

[Deinonych]

Picture is not 100% definitive, but it looks like there are white spots on the caudal peduncle as well as the rear of the dorsal fin. The bumps could also be cryptocaryon lesions. When my foxface has crypto, some of the spots were black, particularly toward the ventral side of the fish. Coupled with the fact that this fish came from Petco, I would strongly suspect cryptocaryon and take action accordingly.

Agree with Steve that lymphocystis is not apparent from the picture. I don't see indications of uronema either.

 

[ca1ore]

Been a little while since I used copper, but isn't 0.25 low?

 

[Deinonych]

Been a little while since I used copper, but isn't 0.25 low?

+1

0.35 mg/L is the minimum therapeutic concentration.

 

[snorvich]

+1

0.35 mg/L is the minimum therapeutic concentration.

That is correct.

 

[mkjohnson1990]

First off: Thanks for all the replies!

Secondly, this one did not come from petco, she has been a friend of mine's pet for over a year, along with the others in quarantine.

And as for the copper treatment, my tests show it between 0.25 and 0.5, but my LFS said she has always been successful running her copper treatments at 0.25 for four weeks instead of 0.5 for two weeks. I have read in several areas that 0.25 is the min therapeutic level. Does anyone have experience with higher levels of copper treatment on clown fish and the hippo tang? (theyre both in QT together).

 

[mkjohnson1990]

And.....y'alls theory about 0.25 level not therapeutic has been proven because not only is the hippo tang's condition worsening, but my black clown now has beginning signs of ich now too. The hippo tang MUST just have a bad case of ich if its getting passed to the black clown now, right? Please say yes...i cant handle two diseases. Will try for better pics tomorrow.

 

[snorvich]

For cupramine, the instructions may be a bit fuzzy. Generally folks here feel that the 0.5mg/l dose they recommend is too high and too aggressive. Try dosing at 0.35-0.40 and keep it there for the 4 week period. Also ramp up the dose slowly over 5-7 days to give the fish time to acclimate better. As to whether you have two parasites, that remains to be seen. However, I do not trust any LFS to run a therapeutic dose in an appropriate manner unless it is in a separate hospital tank.

 

[mkjohnson1990]

I think y'all were right, the copper wasn't at therapeutic levels. Since uping the dosage a bit (just under .4 now) the hippo tang has already lost her "bumps" and they now look more like normal ich (smaller "salty" looking spots). I'll keep y'all posted over the next few days as I feel this could be a good learning experience for anyone in the hobby.

 

[snorvich]

I think y'all were right, the copper wasn't at therapeutic levels. Since uping the dosage a bit (just under .4 now) the hippo tang has already lost her "bumps" and they now look more like normal ich (smaller "salty" looking spots). I'll keep y'all posted over the next few days as I feel this could be a good learning experience for anyone in the hobby.

But the issue is not and never will be "losing bumps". That will happen naturally during the life cycle (I wish folks would read the stickies!) This issue is whether or not the theronts will be killed when they emerge: copper, CP, and hypo all work the same way. If the infectious part of the life cycle is not killed, the life cycle continues.

 

[MrTuskfish]

For cupramine, the instructions may be a bit fuzzy. Generally folks here feel that the 0.5mg/l dose they recommend is too high and too aggressive. Try dosing at 0.35-0.40 and keep it there for the 4 week period. Also ramp up the dose slowly over 5-7 days to give the fish time to acclimate better. As to whether you have two parasites, that remains to be seen. However, I do not trust any LFS to run a therapeutic dose in an appropriate manner unless it is in a separate hospital tank.

Yes, unless the store sold all fish as soon as they came in the door; exposing fish to a therapeutic dose of copper for much. longer than 4 weeks could be deadly. I think most copper discussions on RC assume Cupramine is being used. I am no expert on other brands, which are in different form, but copper testing and dosage vary by brand. If you do use Cupramine, I have for many years, don't hesitate to call SeaChem tech support. They make Cupramine and are nice folks to get help from. 1-888-seachem, I think.

Off topic a little; but doesn't a low dose of copper also really help the stores with algae control?

 

[mkjohnson1990]

Ok, so tomorrow marks 2 weeks since I put the concentration of copper up to just under 0.5ppm and one month of copper treatment (first two weeks at 0.25ppm as prescribed by the LFS)...Hippo tang looks the same as always, and the black clown still has spots, and both keep getting pop eye for a couple days at a time im assuming from itching. What am I doing wrong??