Hop's 800 gallon rebirth

[jnarowe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9304072#post9304072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hop
I completely agree with you J:The way the system is set up, I think of things as three separate systems with the only common tie being the shared water quality....

This was the only real thinking side of equipment and want to be able to shut any of the three legs down at any time, without effecting the other two.

The real energy thoughts will likely come out when tank is focused on. I'm looking at 3, rather than four MH on a light mover, tunzes, rather than a large CL pump. Etc. it will all make sense when it's close to being up and running

So that all sounds good to me, and I get what you are doing with the 3 return pumps. Consider that with my manifold, I only need one pump though. I also keep a spare pump on hand ready to go if needed. My manifold feeds the display, the fuge, the reactor, and has a couple extra valves stubbed in for future expansion like if I needed a chiller, or want to run a frag tank. I can take any of these out of the loop by simply closing its valve.

Marc: Perhaps I didn't write about sumps correctly. I like big sumps, I just don't put a lot of water in them. I have two 100g sumps side-by-side, and keep about 100g in them. This is so I have plenty of room for catastrophes. I learned that the hard way, but by the same token, in the case of a refugium, I believe most installs are simply too small to be effective in nutrient export. Don't get me wrong, every little bit helps, but to make one a major contributor to water quality, it has to be fairly large.

And regarding sand beds, you just can't put a date on them. As I said before, some people run them with great success, but to say that they last "5 years" is misleading. With you, one might last 5 years. With some reefers they go ten years, but as I have observed from post after post, most do not make it nearly that long. You employ a variety of measures to ensure good water quality as well, so you are "helping" your sand bed. I do too.

How many TBS tanks have we read about crashing within 2 years? Your DSB is 2.5 years now but you have had major issues with your system including a recent wipe-out of your fuge for which you had to completely scrub it out. Right there, with all the phosphate absorbing media, water changes, etc. that you do, you still had a mini crash in your fuge.

Nitrate and PO4 levels were rediculous.

This is exactly what happens with sand beds that are not cycled out. Also, there is no way to "wash" phosphate off sand. Reintroducing that sand back into the system is a big mistake IMO. Phosphate is bound to the sand beyond what washing can remove.

 

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9304270#post9304270 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Hop, I doubt you'll have a lot of success with the angled ends since you've not had a lot of acrylic building experience thus far. Better to have two rectangles bulkhead'd together.

And I'm going to counter Jonathan's comments about big sumps. I love them and highly recommend going as large as you can handle it. The additional volume they can hold will be handy from time to time. How any floods have we read about in his fishroom so far? Build a big sump that will care for the tank and hold tons of extra water if necessary.

DSB's tend to last 5 years, not 2. If you run it remotely or in the main tank, you still need to seed it and reseed it from time to time. It takes a long time to make it a nutrient sink that will cause issues. My tank has a DSB and is 2.5 years old now. The water parameters are awesome and have been, and you know over a year ago they were all over the place giving me all kinds of grief. Nitrate and PO4 levels were rediculous. The benefit of the remote one is that you can take it offline if you feel the need. You could wash all the sand (bucket after bucket) until it is new and clean, set it up anew and turn it back on while the tank remains unaffected. It'll need good flow, and I'd toss in some bristleworms, cucumbers and nassarius snails. Even a fighting conch or two. Let them help keep the sand healthy, stirred and clean.

Ziggy, glad my site has brought you and your family so much pleasure with this hobby. Just remember later down the road when you start cursing me because of this <i>obsession</i>, I'll be pointing you to the post in this thread.

Limited on time this morning... But marc, I used to work for a company that built custom enclosures for the rich and famous... Ok maybe rich anyway We built a ton of enclosures, although most were out of 1/2 and thicker. I've definitely been around acrylic... Although I joke about my building experiences, being a high school drop out that dropped back in and got a college degree, I spent the first years of my young adulthood in the shop and know my way around:lol: Funny how the things that we used to hate (IE manual labor) come back to be the things we use to relax(IE wood work and skilled craftsmanship).

Thanks for clearing up a few things, there was a lot of brainstorming last night... Made my head hurt, but I think we are on to something. But my thoughts on the sandbed are right in line with yours Over all, as stressed in the posts from last night, I'm concerned with balancing the size vs. the total system volume in order for it to make a real positive impact, but think I'm on the right track. I have two options at this point, a really large sump with separate, remote fuge which would necessitate the moving of some equipment and sucking up a lot of space or keeping in line with the original wetroom layout and adjusting the size of the sump and fuge...

I would say that this time next month, it will be a matter of setting the pencil, although a mouse in this case, down and letting the hammer do the talking:lol: OK, more likely a screw gun, saw and router, but you get the idea.

Thanks again, I'll be back around this afternoon or evening and finish up where my thought process is at this point!

Thanks for helping out again!

 

[Enderrea]

make three and stack them........then you will have plenty of Fuge!
never mind ... i'm not all there today

 

[Cuby2k]

Smooth Hop, very sssmmooooth!

 

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9309027#post9309027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Enderrea
make three and stack them........then you will have plenty of Fuge!
never mind ... i'm not all there today

LOL, I'll keep it in mind

Cuby2k:??? The sump idea? or??? I'm just throwing things out there and trying to get some feedback Funny how much thought can go into something that may or may not be a big deal later... Good thing I have a bit of excedrine migraine in the house:lol:

 

[Hop]

Well a quick update:

I've still been trying to figure the lighting on this system. I basically decided that PAR is great, but I want my corals to really pop so I can enjoy the tank as well as the photography side. So I'm going to pick up a couple different ballasts and bulbs and see for myself. I'm really leaning toward 2 250 watt Pheonix 14ks driven by PFO HQI ballasts on the ends with an XM or radium 400 watt 20K in the center or 10K on the ends with act supplementation and a 20K in the center... Have a mentioned that I hate lights yet!!!!!

Construction of the wetroom should start this week unless something major happens. I've found the fiberglass sheets I plan on putting over everything for about $13 a sheet which is about half what I originally thought. I've also been playing with measurements and where everything will go. There has been a couple changes from the sketchup plans and I'll explain those later. Most of the acrylic is in and the sizes for everything from the sump, fuge and storage vessels has been finalized.

So hopefully by the end of this week I'll have some photographic evidence of all my brainstorming over the past few months

 

[jnarowe]

Hey, tell us more about the fiberglass sheets!

 

[purebullet417]

cant wait to see pics

 

[Hop]

jnarowe: Nothing too exciting about the sheets. They are just 4'X8' sheets similar to what they use in fastfood bathrooms, although I believe that the sheets I found are used in custom shower surrounds. The stuff I found is really smooth, however, instead of textured. The principal is simple; They will be glued over the drywall in the wetroom as well as the headspace above the tank. This way humidity cannot penetrate the drywall anywhere and cleanup will be a snap from any salt spray or other issues that may arise. The idea behind the new set up is that the wetroom and the headspace above the tanks will be completely isolated from the house. Both areas will be vented and exhausted to and from the exterior of the house. This way there are no issues with humidity in the home, exhausting hot/cold air from the homes heating and cooling and should minimize noise in the rest of the house.

purebullet417: Me either:lol: It's driving me nuts not having something half done around here!

 

[jnarowe]

Aaahhh, like FRP. Got it. I was going to use that in my tank room but when I researched installation methods, I was concerned that it wouldn't really be waterproof. It is not easy to install correctly AND it is quite expensive. You are more handy than I though, so you may be able to install it better.

So I ended up painting my tank room with yacht bilge paint. It is doing the job well. I have had many water issues and everything is fine. In fact it wipes down nicely. It has a bit of an installation issue too, since it is extremely high in VOC.

 

[Hop]

LOL. I wouldn't say more handy... I'll give some reasons behind the decision over other means later, but the work gods calleth

 

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9505897#post9505897 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Aaahhh, like FRP. Got it. I was going to use that in my tank room but when I researched installation methods, I was concerned that it wouldn't really be waterproof. It is not easy to install correctly AND it is quite expensive. You are more handy than I though, so you may be able to install it better.

So I ended up painting my tank room with yacht bilge paint. It is doing the job well. I have had many water issues and everything is fine. In fact it wipes down nicely. It has a bit of an installation issue too, since it is extremely high in VOC.

Ok, work is no fun today and no one's checking over my shoulder so here I am surfing RC

To sum up the reasons behind the use of the sheets, rather than a coating is kind of simple and rather narcissistic Along with wanting to have a nice, fairly maintenance free tank, I want to make sure that every part of this system is pleasing to look at. So the sheets will be hung and everything will be laminated, giving a finished look to everything. I also want to be able to throw water around and not worry as well as give everything a wipe down with a damp cloth/sponge when needed.

As far as the sealing goes and the potential problems with getting it truly air/water tight; I figure there are two areas to concentrate on. The first is ensuring a proper contact between he sheet and the wall and the second is sealing between the joints of each piece. I think (hope) that as long as care is taken in both these areas, it should give me zero problems down the road

This is a pretty accurate depiction of what I envision. Everything will have a finished look, everything will be able to handle a whoops. I've even though about building a slightly elevated floor and putting a drain in that can direct water outside if there are any major spills

 

[samson78945]

im tagging along for this one! good luck and make sure you keep us updated!!

 

[jnarowe]

looks great. on the FRP, it does take some doing but the finished product will be very nice. you have to do a lot of planning too so that you have good joints, sealed penetrations etc. I don't think it makes much of a difference for wiping down, but the bilge paint I used can't take the same kind of abuse that FRP can. Anywhere I have removed screws needs to be patched and re-painted, which is a PITA.

 

[Hop]

LOL. Well I guess we'll start seeing tomorrow Unfortunately I got injured at work and have to wear a brace on my knee, while I take a week off...

So what better time to gut the wetroom, get the panels hung and start building the support structure:lol: I mean duct tape was designed as a knee brace!!!!

 

[jnarowe]

be careful!

PM sent...

 

[Randall_James]

no one looking over your shoulder? I would not count on that Most company's I setup networks for monitor all (ALL) outbound net traffic..

Want even more fun? fire up a wireless card... rogue connection monitors are also standard equipment

 

[Enderrea]

Big Brother is Watching.
poor hop, a week off what ever shall you do

 

[Hop]

jnarowe: Can't wait for you to come out this way

Randall_James: Oh yeah, they watch us like hawks... But the IT guy gave me access to RC... But I have to make sure it's used wisely:lol:

Enderrea: Well I don't mind a few days off, but I'm 90% certain that the end result will include another knee surgery and crutches, so I'm dreading that aspect again!!!! I have got to work on the wetroom today though.

I have officially started deconstruction. I wish I would have ran fresh water through the drain and return lines though. OMG, where is the guy from dirty jobs when you need him. I wasn't ready for the smell and almost deposited lucky charms in the sump... blththwaaaa

Otherwise I'm just getting the sump, fuge, plumbing, sink and structure out today. Tomorrow we'll get some electrical moved and start getting the sheets hung. Hopefully I'll have time to start getting the support structure in as the shop/garage is quickly running out of room to stack stuff:lol:

 

[Hop]

Well I got everything out of the wetroom except the sink. I found that there were some areas that were covered in mold and I really doubt it was healthy having that hanging around. My hypothesis is that there was a lot of over overspray and humid mist from using the fans last summer to keep the tank cool, as all the affected areas were exactly toward the direction where the fans were blowing Also these areas caused the paper to sperate from the gypsum mix of the wall board sheets.

At anyrate, I got the walls and floors prepped. After another set of hands gets home tonight I'll get the sink out and make the trip up to lowes to grab the walls and floors. If I have time, maybe I'll be able to get the floors installed tonight...