How do Clowns become pairs

bigj11

New member
I want to get 2 perculas. Will they definitely become a mated pair if they are the only two fish in my tank? Am i better off buying a mated pair? Do you recommend buying them off of saltwaterfish.com? or liveaquaria or my LFS (they dont have any percs right now).
Thanks!!
 
you are definately taking a chance by ordering them online. If you can get them at a LFS that would be best. Then you will have a better selection. Mated pairs are pretty pricey but if u can afford it go for it. If you want them to pair up buy one that is pretty good size and let it get use to the tank and establish a host. Then get a much smaller one and introduce it to the tank. It will get a little beat up at first but will be submissive but shaking sideways at the dominant fish. They will pair up eventually. However it will most likely take a year or more for them to become a MATED pair. I suggest getting a big size difference because this is the best way to ensure youre getting a male and female. The female is the larger one. The male is the smaller one. They all start off as male and can change to females but cant change back
 
I agree to getting them at the LFS. and if you buy captive bred, all you need to do is pick two. they'll all be male except the biggest one (usually). once in your tank, they'll figure out who gets to be the chick and go on with life. if you buy wild caught, you never know what sex they may be, and if you get two females, one is usually doomed.
 
It can be tricky getting them to mate without losing the weaker one. They will go through a period of fighting, nipping, and chasing before one either gives up dominance or dies. The less dominant fish will usually lay over on its side and sort of convulser like he's having a seizure as a way to wave the white flag. He may have to do this many times before they completely settle into thier roles.
 
One other thought. If you are looking to breed your pair, you should pick up a copy of Clownfishes by Joyce Wilkerson. It has tons of great, useful, easy to understand info in it.
 
This may answer some questions

This may answer some questions

This is lengthy but explains pairing well.

Forming pair bonds in clownfish
A how to guide
By: John Hardman

First you need to understand clownfish --- change and how that effects pairing and interaction. Please refer to Knol on sexing clownfish page for further information.

Briefly, clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites. They are hatched as sexually immature fish. Based on signals from their environment and being physically mature (12-24 months) they will either remain sexually immature, change into a male or change into a male then female. This is a one way trip, sexless to male never to be sexless again and male to female never to be male again.

A clownfish kept by its self will become a female in a short period of time if it is physically mature, in as little as a month.

Second two female clowns will fight. The tell tale sign that you have two females is fighting ending in the two locking their mouths together.

Clownfish pairing techniques:
There are a couple of proven techniques to pair the same species of clownfish. Mixing species of clownfish should be avoided and has very limited long term (multi-year) success (only one case that I know of and could be considered unsuccessful as at least one clownfish was killed by another clownfish in the tank).

Grow out technique:
With this technique two small juvenile clownfish are purchased at the same time and introduced into the tank at the same time. The fish will establish a dominate submissive relationship as they mature and eventually form a pair bond. This technique works the vast majority of the time.

Notes: Since the fish are going to fight and/or chase each other to establish who is the dominate fish and who is the submissive fish, it will often speed the pairing process and reduce fighting and potential damage to the fish by getting one of the two juveniles larger than the other.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

Add a new clownfish to an existing clownfish technique:
With having an existing clownfish in your tank adding a new clownfish to form a pair can be a little harder or in other words more dangerous to the new fish. The technique is basically the same as the grow out technique. You will want to find a small juvenile clownfish and add it to the tank with the existing tank. By getting a small juvenile fish you are not risking possible --- compatibility problems, e.g. two females.

Example: Existing 3" A. Ocellaris clownfish that has been in the tank by it's self for over a year. We can assume this fish is a female based on size, age and environment. A ¾" to 1 ½: juvenile from a community tank is added to the tank. The vast majority of the time the new fish will submit to the existing fish with little or no fighting at all.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

Paring Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):
Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive and very territorial towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.

Separation Technique:
The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a poetical mate to a maroon clownfish.

First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3" from nose to start of the cardinal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.

Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1" nose to start of cardinal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the female's behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish through the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.

Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.

Submissive behavior in clownfish:
As a part of pairing you need to know what submissive behavior is. You will know that you are well on your way to a successful pairing when one fish submits to the other fish. This is especially important behavior to observe in maroon clownfish.

Amphiprion and Premnas species submissive behavior goes something like this.

First the dominate fish will rush or otherwise attack the submissive fish. The submissive fish will turn sideways to the dominate fish and tilt its belly towards the dominate fish and quiver like an epileptic seizure. The female should recognize this behavior and stop the attack short of actual damage. Sometimes in new pairings and old well established pair bonds the dominate fish will move to a parallel position to the submissive and quiver back to the submissive fish.

In Premnas species there is an additional submissive behavior that is unique to maroons. When the submissive fish is rushed or otherwise attacked it/he will duck the attack, slip to the side of the female and tenderly kiss her cheek spines and pectoral fins of his beloved female.

Signs that you have a pair bond in your clownfish:
There are a couple of signs that a pair bond has formed and is maturing in your clownfish in addition to submissive behavior. Typically mated pairs (pairs that have a pair bond) will sleep in the same area. They will also host in the same host or stay in the same territory if there is no natural host present. The two fish will stay close to each other the vast majority of the time.

The pair bond is a developing thing. It starts out as a general acceptance of each other. Then slowly develops into a closer relationship were both fish are together most of the time. There is a bickering phase too where the female will make sure the male knows who is the boss. During this time it is not uncommon to find the poor little dejected male cowering near their normal host/territory. But don't worry this is normal and the male will be accepted back sooner or later. The ultimate end of the pair bond is seen in a spawning event such as nest cleaning or laying of eggs.
 
This may answer some questions

This may answer some questions

This is lengthy but explains pairing well.

Forming pair bonds in clownfish
A how to guide
By: John Hardman

First you need to understand clownfish --- change and how that effects pairing and interaction. Please refer to Knol on sexing clownfish page for further information.

Briefly, clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites. They are hatched as sexually immature fish. Based on signals from their environment and being physically mature (12-24 months) they will either remain sexually immature, change into a male or change into a male then female. This is a one way trip, sexless to male never to be sexless again and male to female never to be male again.

A clownfish kept by its self will become a female in a short period of time if it is physically mature, in as little as a month.

Second two female clowns will fight. The tell tale sign that you have two females is fighting ending in the two locking their mouths together.

Clownfish pairing techniques:
There are a couple of proven techniques to pair the same species of clownfish. Mixing species of clownfish should be avoided and has very limited long term (multi-year) success (only one case that I know of and could be considered unsuccessful as at least one clownfish was killed by another clownfish in the tank).

Grow out technique:
With this technique two small juvenile clownfish are purchased at the same time and introduced into the tank at the same time. The fish will establish a dominate submissive relationship as they mature and eventually form a pair bond. This technique works the vast majority of the time.

Notes: Since the fish are going to fight and/or chase each other to establish who is the dominate fish and who is the submissive fish, it will often speed the pairing process and reduce fighting and potential damage to the fish by getting one of the two juveniles larger than the other.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

Add a new clownfish to an existing clownfish technique:
With having an existing clownfish in your tank adding a new clownfish to form a pair can be a little harder or in other words more dangerous to the new fish. The technique is basically the same as the grow out technique. You will want to find a small juvenile clownfish and add it to the tank with the existing tank. By getting a small juvenile fish you are not risking possible --- compatibility problems, e.g. two females.

Example: Existing 3" A. Ocellaris clownfish that has been in the tank by it's self for over a year. We can assume this fish is a female based on size, age and environment. A ¾" to 1 ½: juvenile from a community tank is added to the tank. The vast majority of the time the new fish will submit to the existing fish with little or no fighting at all.

This technique should not be applied to Premnas species (maroon) clownfish.

Paring Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):
Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive and very territorial towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.

Separation Technique:
The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a poetical mate to a maroon clownfish.

First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3" from nose to start of the cardinal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.

Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1" nose to start of cardinal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the female's behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish through the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.

Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.

Submissive behavior in clownfish:
As a part of pairing you need to know what submissive behavior is. You will know that you are well on your way to a successful pairing when one fish submits to the other fish. This is especially important behavior to observe in maroon clownfish.

Amphiprion and Premnas species submissive behavior goes something like this.

First the dominate fish will rush or otherwise attack the submissive fish. The submissive fish will turn sideways to the dominate fish and tilt its belly towards the dominate fish and quiver like an epileptic seizure. The female should recognize this behavior and stop the attack short of actual damage. Sometimes in new pairings and old well established pair bonds the dominate fish will move to a parallel position to the submissive and quiver back to the submissive fish.

In Premnas species there is an additional submissive behavior that is unique to maroons. When the submissive fish is rushed or otherwise attacked it/he will duck the attack, slip to the side of the female and tenderly kiss her cheek spines and pectoral fins of his beloved female.

Signs that you have a pair bond in your clownfish:
There are a couple of signs that a pair bond has formed and is maturing in your clownfish in addition to submissive behavior. Typically mated pairs (pairs that have a pair bond) will sleep in the same area. They will also host in the same host or stay in the same territory if there is no natural host present. The two fish will stay close to each other the vast majority of the time.

The pair bond is a developing thing. It starts out as a general acceptance of each other. Then slowly develops into a closer relationship were both fish are together most of the time. There is a bickering phase too where the female will make sure the male knows who is the boss. During this time it is not uncommon to find the poor little dejected male cowering near their normal host/territory. But don't worry this is normal and the male will be accepted back sooner or later. The ultimate end of the pair bond is seen in a spawning event such as nest cleaning or laying of eggs.
 
How about my two black ocellaris. I got them very small. Both getting along very well. Its been almost 3 years and I would say the size of both are almost same in size . Does this mean they both females. Both are pretty big. Never Seen eggs laid with these two. Anybody... I do have a smaller in other tank. Should I remove one and replace it with smaller ocellaris.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13856820#post13856820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FIREFISHPAT
How about my two black ocellaris. I got them very small. Both getting along very well. Its been almost 3 years and I would say the size of both are almost same in size . Does this mean they both females. Both are pretty big. Never Seen eggs laid with these two. Anybody... I do have a smaller in other tank. Should I remove one and replace it with smaller ocellaris.

The size dimorphism (I think that's how it's spelled) - different sizes in sex is not a sure thing, it is for most part a good guideline to sex clownfish.

I have a breeding pair of black ocellaris that grew out the same time as you ~3yrs, the male and female is almost the same size, the female is only around 1/8" longer than the male. There are also other cases that for some pair, the male might be bigger than the female, although not very often.
 
In your case, you should also look for other behavioural signals such as aggression v.s. submission to determine who is the actual female. I do not see a reason to seperate them especially they have been with each other for so long, there is a good chance that they are already 'bonded'. Are they sleeping together? (that will be a good sign of a bonded pair)

Athough I agreed with most of JHardman's points in the article, I do not agreed with the pairing of Maroon clownfish is difficult at all. In fact, pairing most wild caught maroon is one of the easiest as they always have huge sexual dimorphism. If purchase new, buy the largest you can find and buy the smallest you can find (less than 1" is a sure-fire). They will almost pair instantly without much effort or fighting.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13857601#post13857601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vaporize
[
Athough I agreed with most of JHardman's points in the article, I do not agreed with the pairing of Maroon clownfish is difficult at all. In fact, pairing most wild caught maroon is one of the easiest as they always have huge sexual dimorphism. If purchase new, buy the largest you can find and buy the smallest you can find (less than 1" is a sure-fire). They will almost pair instantly without much effort or fighting. [/B]

I have tried a pairing she was w/c, there was very large size difference, ended with the death of the male. Easy is not how I'd describe this experience. Do you have a source or is it your experience. I can find nothing to back up this claim. I am very interested, may try again in the future and find this fascinating.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13858254#post13858254 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lmecher
I have tried a pairing she was w/c, there was very large size difference, ended with the death of the male. Easy is not how I'd describe this experience. Do you have a source or is it your experience. I can find nothing to back up this claim. I am very interested, may try again in the future and find this fascinating.

I actually learnt it from a wholesaler that always pair them that way. But I have paired 4 or 5 pairs of maroon that way. All of the male/juvenile are 1" or even less, I on purposely pick the smallest. So the female might b 5X the size.

One thing that I might do a bit differently is that I always quarantine my fish, so the male/female are already used to aquarium conditions or food for more than 2-3 weeks prior the pairing.

Always add them when the lights are out.
 
the main problem with many wild caught clowns is that they frequently seperate mature fish to reduce the losses. once alone, they start turning female and within 3-4 weeks are a fully female with no turning back once the change begins.
starting with immature captive bred is the best way to go.
 
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