How many fish is TOO MANY? 20? 40?

[cubsFAN]

Guys, We've seen these threads before, just search for them. I doubt he's looking for any advice, just wants someone to agree with his logic and planned additions which makes it alright to overcrowd a tank.

and I believed in him for a little while...
professional experimenter? The info is at your finger tips. You won't be the first person to overstock a tank and you won't be the last. So many people have made that clown mistake I must laugh that someone pays you to experiment. Do you do research before you experiment? 40 fish huh? I hope you don't experiment with anything dangerous. :reading:

 

[herring_fish]

LOL I do have a few patents and I am a designer of a few things that you actually use form time to time. Not just in aquarium products. …but that 40 fish thing was a little tongue and cheek. I don’t just get paid to experiment. I design and have to take changes. I brain storm, model, simulate, prototype, test, redesign, retest. That is where the money is. You know, do what was not possible last year. One of most common sentences that I hear in my job is, "You can do that!" I can't do that yet would be a better statement.

Yes, I do a lot of research and testing where I can. I get a lot of advice from my produce suppliers and other experimenters but sometimes I test blindly. Sometimes I don’t like the result. (I just killed a batch of plankton the other day.) Other times I proudly get to say, “I designed that!”

I don’t know how many fish I can have in the tank. That is why I asked. I’m not a fish addict. I’m much more into filter feeders. A group of use are very interested in high feeding levels and how to control and process nutrients. I just thought that I would see what I can get away with because of this environment that we have set up. All that I know is that I can load my tank with nutrients and get away with it. I just tested my water and it’s all great.

Earlier this year, I tested a produce that put my ammonia almost off of the chart. It was right at the top of my little home test kit. The system processed a half life per day, so to speak. On the third day …zero.

I guess that my assertion can not be believed by some but I don’t really want to waste a lot of time debating how to best get rid of nitrates. I know one way that works really well and that is all that counts for me. The 1 inch of fish per 10 gallons of water, I believe, is a rule of thumb for the processing of waste. The fish have lots of room to swim with good water quality but behavior is another matter.

All of the fish are, I don’t know, fat or muscular looking. Maybe this clown thing is a sign that I can’t go any further. I don’t know. I am ignorant of this part of reefing. I know that the clown behavior is the only thing that stands out. No deaths. No wasting. The Chromis get along just fine. The bottom line here for me would be ....Is nutrient load the limiting factor or is it proximity?

You can be a critic or you can help. I know that I leave myself open to it so let “r” rip. I can handle it. …but you guys that might have some rational constructive comments, pleases chime in. I could use some help. Thanks

 

[khaosinc]

I don't have 40 fish in a tank 5 times that size....LOL

 

[cpl40475]

Anothe concern for me is what happens to the fish once they grow bigger? The tangs can get pretty big what will happen to them once they mature after a couple of years.

 

[khaosinc]

I have 3 different species of clowns in my tank and the one thing I've noticed is that line of sight seems to be key for them. If all the clowns/pairs can establish teretorys that they can't see one another then it seems to work. Why I have a clarkii/Maroon pair I don't know but if they ever produce viable eggs it should be interesting. Almost nothing is impossible in this hobby. Wasn't that long ago that people dipped dead coral in bleach regularily and kept pennies in the tank. I'd love to see more on how you have your filtration set up. I'm always curious to see new ideas.

 

[lisafoster]

The clarki is the yellow and white on. In my 125 the balck and white take one end with several anemones and the orange pair are on the other with several anemones. I would say if you are starting to see one pair really going after another clown I would remove them if one decides to kill the little one it will be very quick. I have tried groups of chromis 2x I have 2 left unless most people I have spoken with who have done this also have had the same experience. I believe schooling fish together in a tank is not the same as in nature if you had a very large system then you may be able to get away with it. How long have you had these groups of the same fish it says months

 

[nauticac4]

I skimmed the posts and didn't see anyone say it so I will.

CHROMIS WILL NOT WHITTLE THEMSELVES DOWN TO TWO IF PROPERLY CARED FOR.

I have had a group of nine in my care for 3 years now. First in a 120 gallon that was upgraded to a 180 gallon. Feed them properly (lots of small stuff like cyclopeze and small spectrum pellets) and have all of the great things a tank is supposed to have (clean water, good params and good flow) and a group will prosper as with most fish.

Back to the Topic at Hand


As for the more fish in that 130. Buy a bigger tank. Those tangs need or will need the room. The other fish are smaller fish but it seems quite a few on that list are territorial (i.e. the clowns, tangs) If the list was different I'd say that you could

Can you post parameters of your tank?
Maybe some pictures?

Everyone has their own method to their madness and what works for some might not work for all I just want to see the fruits of you madness.

 

[lisafoster]

nauticac4, you are lucky almost everyone I have spoken with have not been able to keep large schools of chromis. I feed my tank very well although I have not tried the cyclopeez mine love the big priscine mysis. My two are always together I figured they paired off and took the others out.

 

[lars on live]

I've had my school of 9 Chromis for about 7 months. Not a long time but they are spawning and seem to be doing ok. They are in a 120 gallon with lots of rock and only 4 other fish in the tank, all of which are on the smaller size.

 

[mthomp]

sounds like you have too many fish already.

 

[herring_fish]

Yes it is a bit strange. I know that I am full of it but I am trying to describe thinks as my I sees them. I tell my friends what is going on and they **** their head to the side and get that RCA Dog look but when they come over they just say Hmmmmm.

I bought the two pairs of Perculas about two weeks apart just after I started the tank so it was two Januarys ago. One pair from the store and one from a friend. The big one picks at the small one from time to time for a few days at a time and then stops. I never paid attention to any trigger that starts the cycle. It may be at the point of introduction of new fish that starts the behavior, I don't know. This time is worse. I put in a rose Anemone about a month ago but the Perculas don't know to use it. The bigger pair seems to "nest" on a mushroom rock that a friend gave me about two months ago. His Perculas use the same spot on the rock that way before he gave it to me. He kept the fish. Does anyone have any ideas on how I would get the second pair to make the Rose their home?

I think that I bought the Chromis about 4 or 5 months ago, all in the same week. They never fought and after week one, I didn't loose any.

I bought the Blue Hippo from a friend so it was about 4 inches long all ready. It is timid but has no conflicts that I can see. It developed ick a few days after I got him but it went away in about a week. It never came back and it didn't spread to other fish. I was dosing an enzyme for the filter feeders but I didn't specifically treat the ick. The Yellow Tank is store bought and about 3 or 4 inches. They are both timid. Is that atypical?

I wonder about one of the fire fish but it comes out to eat. They hang out together but I don't think that they are mated. They aren't in sink like I have seen before.

I lost a flame angle that was in the tank after about 6 months. I really don't know why. The population was still in the standard range when it died. Other than that, if I'm going to lose a fish, it will be in the first week.

As for the filtration. I have some rubble that isn't offered for sale and I think that it is a large part of my nutrient processing capacity. I think that it acts like a lot more live rock than the 55 gallons would indicate. There is a lot more in there and it is more porous.

I use Reef Bug. I know that I will get a ribbing about that. Basically, it is a lot like adding vodka but to me, it is a lot easier to manage. I don't use it for nutrient control but that is a side effect.

The algae scrubber takes up ammonia pretty well. The dump bucket might give the tank that ocean feel. Maybe that is over rated but on the other hand, maybe it puts the fish at ease.

I will show you a Youtube flick of the bucket that I took a year ago. The wires weren't put away yet. Part of the fruit of my madness and testing is a tank with less beauty than you would expect. Remember not all of the test are successesful. I don't have any pictures of the fish. I am a coral man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRoKX8AjEbI

 

[nauticac4]

I was not trying to imply that you are doing anything wrong with my above post sorry if it came across that way.

I am trying to find the balance and limits of your system.

My fish list looks something like this

9 Chromis
2 Mated Maroon Clowns
1 Yellow watchman goby
1 Mystery Wrasse
4 Bangaii Cardinals
1 Diamond Goby
1 Tennetti tang
1 SailFin Tang
2 Engineer Gobies

Most people would say that I am at the limit if not overstocked. I keep it in check with skimming, and vodka dosing, plus a refugium. I keep my eye on things and dont have aggression problems.

Did you have fish in mind that you wanted to add? I think that will be the ultimate factor in the "correct" answer. Post a list of possibilities and we can discuss it.

 

[herring_fish]

No offence taken. Earlier, I said that I wanted to get a Powder Blue Tank but I have been advised that the Hippo and Yellow tangs might be too much to be added to. I also want to add a few Anthias. They seem to hang out with the Chromis in the pictures that I have seen but I haven't been exposed to them in a real situation outside of the store. Perhaps I would replace my Flame angle. It mostly hides. Oh ...do fish have battles behind the rock as well?

As a side note. I found that the propeller driven pumps have more flow and are little more laminar than power heads. When I use them all the fish hind more even though the current is not hard for them to navigate. Any thoughts?

Again, are there tricks to get Perculas to make an available Anemone their home?
Also again, ....Is nutrient load the limiting factor or is it proximity? ...or both?

 

[herring_fish]

My smaller pair of Perculas found a Rose Anemone that I added a week or two ago and are defending it against the other two so instead of having one fish from the bigger pair picking on the little one, I have both of the bigger Perculas trying to evict the other two. The smaller two are snuggling down into the Anemone as deep as they can.

 

[lisafoster]

Trying adding another anemone for the other pair I have about six in my tank so each pair has numeous to choose from. I have three female and one male lyretail anthias that are very pretty

 

[TampaReefer79]

I'm kind of confused and would like to know what you use for water movement? What kind of power heads are you using and how many? If the chromis don't wittle down from fighting, all these anemones you plan on adding might help do that for you. As well as eat the anthias, firefish, etc. Just be careful with numerous anemones in such small quarters. I saw a green carpet anemone eat a tang once.

 

[herring_fish]

I think that I have a Maxijet 1200 that I bought a propeller conversion kit for. I bought a pair but two were too much for now. I also have a dump bucket that drops 2 gallons about one foot into the tank.

I raised the bucket, in my re-started tank, up and down until I got the visual splash and sound level that I liked, when the door is closed. It is strictly for my personal cosmetic sensibilities but the splashing may add a natural feel for the fish in the tank. I don't know.

Further back in this thread, I posted a video of the dump bucket style Algal Turf Scrubber that I built.

 

[TampaReefer79]

I must be missing something...I can't imagine how a maxi-jet is enough flow for a 6 foot tank with a few tangs in it. These guys need the water MOVING. And I don't get how adding just a second maxi-jet is 'too much'. Trust me it isn't.

And is this tank glass or acrylic? Please be real careful with the dump bucket type system. They can really add a ton of stress to a tank which can lead to failure. I'm not just saying this to scare you...I almost bought a used tank a few months ago that employed a dump bucket system. But the tank wasn't specifically built to withstand the pressure, so I passed.

 

[herring_fish]

...Maybe some pictures?

Everyone has their own method to their madness and what works for some might not work for all I just want to see the fruits of you madness.

I have more madness than method but I'm having fun. I finally got a charge on my battery. I didn't set this up or feed to stage their behavior. I just turned it on and started shooting. 'Just one take. ...so it's not to picturesque.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCPR_Gr6spc

 

[herring_fish]

The bigger pair of Perculas have won the battle over the Rose Anemone. The victory was sort live however. Those that said that the Yellow Stripped Clown was too aggressive seem to be right. It has decided to take over the Rose Anemone. No"¦it has not given up the other one. It hangs out in one for a while, chasing the others away with ease and then it swims to the other side of the tank to occupy the other anemone as well. I think that it will have to go. If it is out of the tank, there would be the two different anemones that the two pair of Perculas would need, as suggested by lisafoster. First, I have to catch the Yellow Stripe.