How much risk in cutting QT short

[JoelA7]

Hello,

I know I am about to ask a question that is about risk/reward, or, more accurately, risk of a DT vs risk of losing one fish.

I have an Eibli angel in QT since 10/21 (Two weeks tomorrow) sharing a 10G with a Bicolor blenny.

I tried various different foods over the first 5 days and it ate little - very very fussy. Foods tried included spirulina brine, myesis, cyclopeeze frozen, formula 2. It paced for the first 1.5 days but settled down and had very normal behavior for the next 3+ days.

Started Cupramine on 10/26. I raised the level to .4 ppm over 4 days to accustom the fish. Blenny is tolerating it fine. Behavior normal, eating normal. A midas blenny in a separate QT is doing fantastic on the same regimen. Appropriate water changes have been done to keep NH4 in check.

Sourced some nori and tried that for the Eibli on the 31st, and it picked at it but didn't chow down. Yesterday it pretty much ignored fresh nori and only ate 4 brine shrimp.

Current condition of the Eibli visually is very good. It has never shown any external parasites. When it arrived (LA, all three) it had a small damage/abrasion on its flank and this has nearly healed. However the fish is starting to get thin. Also, now spending less time out, less curious and friendly toward me, and more time nestled between some pipe and the heater in the tank corner.

So the Eibli has had a theraputic level of Cupramine as needed for Crypto for 7 days. Seachem recommends 14 to eradicate, but as mentioned, no symptoms have been noted, at least not externally. Life cycle has the Crypto on the fish for 3-7 days, then the Cu in the tank should kill any tomonts as they detach. Nothing in the tank which was cleaned and dried.

So, I see 3 options:

1. Keep going, cross my fingers that the Eibli makes it another week and then drop him in the DT.

2. Keep the theraputic dose another few days until I judge that the Eibli has had about what it can take and still make the transfer and adjustment to the new tank. (Course this has another downside - it's a reef and the fish is hungry and it might immediately go for zoas and lps that are in there.)

3. Do a 50% water change in the QT and remove the rest of the copper with carbon and, if the Eibli starts to come around, then observe another cople of weeks. If not, transfer to DT.

What do folks think? I don't want to lose the fish. It would make me feel terrible. But I also don't want to screw the pooch in the DT.

Thank you for your input. I'm feeling my way along and it's hard to make these judgment calls with limited experience.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I generally am not eager to cut QT short.

My QT session generally last 12-14 weeks.

As for as copper treatment to eradicate ich is concerned, many people do as few as four weeks (fewer is likely unsound), but I elect to do longer. One reason is that as long as the QT is supported with robust nitrification, generally one does not have to do much WC, and QT in general is leisurely.

The likely category of diseases that requires a drug put in water that can harm nitrification bacteria is external bacterial infection. So in general if there is no external bacterial infection, QT is leisurely with little WC and other work.

I tend to think that if one generally feel the pressure to cut short QT, the QT procedure should be evaluated.

 

[JoelA7]

Hi Wooden Reefer,

Appreciate the good advice as a general rule. And I'd love to have this extend a full 4 weeks if possible. Another week of .4ppm then a further week of observation, perhaps prazi too. But the point is that the Eibli may not start eating until it's got a better situation. I can't provide it except in my DT. So I'm struggling to get a grip on just how much risk there is that I'll put crypto back in the DT if I move the Eibli in early.

 

[snorvich]

Did the fish come from a source that runs copper in their system? If it did, cutting quarantine short has an incredibly high level of risk. If it did not, the risk is high but not quite to the level of the other scenario.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Hi Wooden Reefer,

Appreciate the good advice as a general rule. And I'd love to have this extend a full 4 weeks if possible. Another week of .4ppm then a further week of observation, perhaps prazi too. But the point is that the Eibli may not start eating until it's got a better situation. I can't provide it except in my DT. So I'm struggling to get a grip on just how much risk there is that I'll put crypto back in the DT if I move the Eibli in early.

I used Coppersafe over 30 years ago but since the early 80's have been using straight copper. I find straight copper easy to use.

The desirable length and dose of copper treatment varies, but QT for treatment of all other diseases takes time.

Also QT is for promotion of adaptation.

If you have robustly cycled medium in advance for QT, then there is usually no ammonia for all amounts of bioload in QT.

 

[JoelA7]

Steve - The fish were from Live Aquaria, not Divers Den. I don't know whether the prophylactic procedure they use includes copper but I know the holding tanks don't. I telephoned to find out whether the prophy did and the customer service has to inquire from the facility to get the answer, which won't be available for another day.

WR - NH4 is zero or at least undetectable with my Salifert kit. I had a sponge media prepped.

Well, about to turn lights on, wake the fish up, and will try feeding in an hour.

 

[JoelA7]

Well he/she is very lethargic. No flee response to my hand in the tank. Hmmm...

 

[Dmorty217]

Cutting QT short is a BAD idea no matter what

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Have you thought of removing the copper? Angels can be sensitive to copper which could be why he is not eating.

 

[wooden_reefer]

"Started Cupramine on 10/26. I raised the level to .4 ppm over 4 days to accustom the fish. Blenny is tolerating it fine. Behavior normal, eating normal. A midas blenny in a separate QT is doing fantastic on the same regimen. Appropriate water changes have been done to keep NH4 in check."

I will never have ammonia in QT unless I have to use a drug in water that harms nitrification bacteria.

This is because I always cycle the medium in QT to process at least 10x the imaginable ammonia generated by livestock.

 

[JoelA7]

Update and follow on questions:

Eibli on side breathing very very rapidly. Removed to a FWB for 5 minutes. Put in separate container with DT water. It seemed to recover a bit over an hour. Did 60% water change with DT water - it was ready, no disease in the DT to my knowledge. (And added fresh mix water to DT which really needed the water change...) Turned lights in QT off for night.

Today, Eibli now still laying on its side, breathing fast but not as much as earlier. It has swum around a little bit. Added Prazi.

I have definitely decided to wait it out. Not putting it anywhere near the DT until I am confident in its health. The Bicolor Blenny sharing the QT seems to be taking all of this in stride.

Any thoughts? And thank you, all of you, for your help.

 

[snorvich]

What are you trying to accomplish with a freshwater dip?

 

[JoelA7]

Hi Steve,

I thought, perhaps, there was a fluke infestation.

Basically, at this point, I am stumped. Maybe there's something internal, but the fish really never ate well and it's not eating now so no idea how I could get medication into it for an internal problem. Appearance is still OK but dull colors. And the Bicolor is out and about acting just like one would expect. So maybe it's just starving and that is all.