How much SeaChem Calcium Reef Complete

[Pbrown3701]

I haven't been seeing any growth in my corals so I recently figured it was time to start testing Alk and Cal

I tested 2 days ago and my alk was high at 4.4 meq/L and my calcium was low at 300ppm. Here's what I'm looking at:

So i've begun to add liquid Seachem Reef complete to bring the calcium back into range and in turn, lower alk.

The bottle of the Reef Complete says not to add more than 12.5mL/20gal per day.

My question is, what happens if i add more than this?

I ask, because i doubled the dose yesterday and the calcium level didn't increase by more than the previous day when i just used the "max dose." This may just be due to the resolution of the test kit (15ppm). Am i doing any harm by adding more than it says? Is this the max dose because only so much can be utilized per day and thus, adding more will not have any effect?

 

[Pbrown3701]

Also, what could cause these parameters to get so far out of whack? I do significant bi weekly water changes (about 40-50 gallons on a 100gal total system volume). I have been using Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt without any additives.

I run a Kalk reactor and top off about 3 gal a day.

The tank is sparsely populated. I started off with softies and added some LPS about 4 months ago (1 frogspawn). In the last month, i've added an acro (small frag), and i rescued a candy cane and a a hydrophora (sp?), from a buddy who's tank crashed. I don't think this is enough to put a large impact into Ca levels from usage

 

[HowardW]

<<< I don't think this is enough to put a large impact into Ca levels from usage >>>


I don't think so either. What salt and test kits do you use?

 

[md14fish]

Alot depends on the demand for Ca in your reef. The more corals clams etc. more Ca demand.

 

[bertoni]

A pH buffer would drive up alkalinity. That's the most common source of problems.

The directions on the bottle are mostly for people who aren't measuring. It's safe to dose 50-100 ppm per day, depending on whom you ask. This calculator should help:

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

The calculator needs a guess as to the total water volume of the tank. I'd probably plug in half the tank's volume as a starting point.

 

[Pbrown3701]

I use Tropic Marin Pro reef. And up to now, i have added NOTHING (no buffers, no Ca supplements, nothing). Only top off with kalk water via a neilson reacor. My thoughts were (before reading more about commercial salt blends) that by doing weekly or biweekly LARGE water changes, i would maintain the Ca and Alk levels. I didn't realize that lots of salts don't have the proper amounts to begin with.

I just purchased a bucket of IO salt (since it's cheaper and i will apparently have to start adding additives to it anyway).

I'm using a Salifert Alk test (yes, i know they sometimes read on the high side) and an Instant Ocean Calcium test - which came recommended to me by a reef store owner who was the VP of sales for Seachem for 20+ years. He claimed that the IO tests are made by another company (cant think of the name) that sea chem and the others use to make their own tests.

So I've temporarily disconnected my Kalk reactor until i get the Ca levels back in check. Then I'll turn it back on to maintain and determin what my Ca usage is (so i can dose that ammount).

Do you all dose daily or weekly - is it that big a deal if you don't have a huge SPS dominated tank?

 

[bertoni]

I would check the test kits against another set. Those levels don't make any sense. The kalk drip is help to maintain both alkalinity and calcium, and in a balanced fashion.

Daily dosing is fairly common for tanks.

 

[Patrick12]

One of the issues with "overdosing" the calcium is that it can precipitate and create crystals that then further precipitate the calcium fro the water. That is the reason for the "cautious" dosing on the bottle. You would really have to add a lot of calcium and have a high pH to see this phenomena occur. That is the simple answer as to why you are seeing the dose set the way it is. IO mixes to around 320 ppm calcium if you test with Salifert (in my experience). I too was using it because I thought it was cheaper to do so...it isn't. I would recommend swithching to a reef salt. I use IO reef crystals and it has made things much better. I also use Tropic Marin Biocalcium and have had tremendous results. No Ca reactor, just 5 scoops of biocalcium every few days. My Ca ranges from 420 to 480 ppm over the past year. No additives no Mg, occasional iodine if the skimmer went crazy, That's it. I have had a branching hammer go from 7 heads last August to two separate colonies now of 35 and 19 heads each. Also, I started up with the SPS in May and have seen two frags increase by 5 times their original size. My softies are doing well and growing too, but not as fast as if I fed them. I also have 2x250W MHs and 2x96W PCs on them. I do not feed my corals per say, just the fish. I let the fish feed the corals. Just my input. Good luck.

 

[bertoni]

[welcome]

IO does mix to a low pH, but 350 ppm is more common, and the alkalinity shouldn't be 4.4 meq/L. Reef Crystals does have a better calcium level, though.

 

[Percula9]

If Mag levels are low, it will prevent you from raising the calcium significantly. Try Kent Turbo calcium instead.

 

[Pbrown3701]

I haven't tested Mag yet. I can't imagine that it would be out of ratio with the frequency of water changes i do.

Regarding calcium precipitating out.....isn't that kind of the idea? As i understand it, in order to bring the Alk down (quickly) i'm adding Ca (which is in a ratio with Alk and Mg). Adding calcium will precipitate out some of the carbonate (as calcium is already saturated at the present alk value- adding any more Ca will have to precipitate) and in turn, lower the alk. At some point, the alk should decrease and the calcium increase until they are in the proper ratio (within the box above). Am I not understanding this process correctly?

I would question the test kits if everything looked normal. However, something is definitely amiss and the Alk/Cal levels are the only major thing I have not yet attempted to tackle. I have no reason to doubt the kit at this point.

So i think i'm on the right track - and it's working (as you can see from the chart above). I just wanted to know if i can speed along this process by adding more CaCl (i presume that is what seachem reef complete is...)

 

[Pbrown3701]

There isn't any way that Mg could be elevated if i'm not dosing it and making frequent water changes...correct? Kalk doesn't add any Mg and should force Mg down a little over time if i understand correctly.

 

[bertoni]

Magnesium will drop over time if it's not dosed, since some of it is consumed instead of calcium here and there in a coral skeleton.

 

[Pbrown3701]

Thanks for your help Bertoni

Do you have experience with whether or not Tropic Marin has appropriate levels of Mg from the mix? (what about Ca and Alk for TM just out of curiosity)

And what about IO. Do i need to add Mg for this new IO salt?

 

[bertoni]

IO needs magnesium, in my experience. It's at about 1100 ppm out of the bucket. The other salts I haven't used, so I'm not sure.

 

[HowardW]

If you're trying to maintain calcium and mag levels, I'm not sure why you'd want to use a salt like IO that is known to be deficient in both.

 

[Pbrown3701]

I've been using Tropic Marin. I haven't opened the IO yet. My reasoning is the TM costs 20 bucks more than the IO and doesnt' give good results. If i'm going to have to supplement anyway, why not start off with the cheaper salt. Also, i found that many use IO with a lot of success. Read an article that showed the tank of the month winners and the salt they use. IO was the most common.

 

[HowardW]

Regular TM salt (not the pro, which is recommended to be used with a Ca reactor) and Seachem Reef Salt should both provide good numbers on the Ca and Mg. I have used Seachem RS in the past and always got about 430-470ppm on Ca and high 1200s on Mg. I now use Marine Enterprises Bioassay Lab Grade salt which also gives very good results on both.

Yes, IO is available nearly everywhere and very popular for whatever reason, but I could never see using a salt that was known to be deficient in two of the most important elements for our tanks and requires supplementation before use.

 

[Pbrown3701]

Availability is also important. I live about 100 miles from the closest reef store. That store carries IO. If i want to go with any of the salts you mention, i have to add anonther 30 bucks for shipping. It's just not worth it.

 

[Pbrown3701]

here's an update:

So what methods do you all use to increase the Ca concentration in your new SW after mixing? I typically mix up fresh salt water in a 65 gal brute trashcan. How much and what kind of additive should i expect to use? Do i need to add it slowly or can i just dump it in?