how to auto does bionic

[GSchiemer]

I think calling the LiterMeter "garabage" and saying "I would NOT use a LiterMeter if I got one for free!" are way over the top, hence my initial reply. I considered those statements, and a few others, unprofessional and personal attacks, since they were in reply to me saying that I owned, used and liked the LiterMeter. BTW, please don't tell my 7 year old and 4 year LiterMeter pumps that they are "garbage" because they may stop working.

We can argue forever about apparent build quality and engineering but the bottom line is that I've used both pumps and I can speak from PRACTICAL experience. Without getting into bashing other products, as you've proudly done, I'll just say that after extended use in aquarium applications, I've found the LiterMeter to be more reliable and easier to operate than all the other aquarium dosing pumps that I've used to date. In fact, I just replaced a peristaltic pump that was made to dose liquid chlorine into spas after 3 years. I was using it on my big reef to dose kalkwasser. This is sold as a heavy-duty pump and I anticipated that it would last many years. So much for "engineering."

As for the B-Ionic air-driven dosing system, it works okay but does not compare to a good peristaltic pump, such as the LiterMeter. It's a good value though if you can't afford a LiterMeter.

The "ReefFiller" is NOT similar to the LiterMeter in any way. One is a diaphram pump and the other is a peristaltic pump. Completely different designs. The peristaltic pump is superior for most aquarium applications.

This discussion is getting a bit repetitive, so I'm bowing out here.

Greg

 

[tanksalot]

Greg:

If you're ever admitted to a hospital and they need to administer some materials over a long period of time, maybe you should ask them if they would use your Litermeter.

tanksalot

Stan Furman

 

[skireef]

Fortunately, we are using these products for an aquarium, and not on our bodies. I believe all these approaches work fine. The ESV doser does take a little adjustment but has been working fine for me for a few months. Really, the sentry or literMeter (I have one for 10 years on my home top off system) will do the job so cost and noise should be the determining factor.
I do know that the literMeter I is very noisy so determine where it will be located before deciding. The air driven ESV doser runs for only a minute so noise is not a factor.....last comment, I think the pumps will be less problematic long term IMO.

 

[Tech Diver]

skireef,

You have summarized the issues well. The only other factor I would add to "Noise", and "Cost", is continuous-delivery vs. burst-delivery.

As I mentioned before, the main objection I had to certain dosing pump, henceforth to be referred by me as Product X (not to offend anyone), is that it did nothing for 9 minutes then delivered a burst of dosing agent (in my case Kalkwasser) in just a few seconds. If you have a sump or a really large tank, that methodology might be tolerable. However, suddenly dumping a considerable quantity of a caustic agent directly into my little 29 gal SPS reef is just not acceptable. Thus my previous statement: "I would not use [Product X] if I got one for free" still holds true in my situation.

Peter

 

[Anemone]

The "ReefFiller" is NOT similar to the LiterMeter in any way. One is a diaphram pump and the other is a peristaltic pump. Completely different designs. The peristaltic pump is superior for most aquarium applications.

This discussion is getting a bit repetitive, so I'm bowing out here.

Originally posted by Anemone
Now, for automated top off, I personally like my Tunze Osmolator way more than I liked my ReefFiller (similar to the litermeter). Don't have to constantly fiddle with the adjustment knob to compensate for changing evaporation levels, and no worries about a mechanical float switch sticking.

Sorry, my reference to "similar" was that the reeffiller is a "preset delivery" device - ie, it delivers a certain amount of liquid at preset intervals. My statement refers to automated top-off. And I stick by my preference - my evaporation level changes quite a bit over the course of a year, and I had to adjust the amount of top off water delivered by my reeffiller about once a week. I don't have those issues with the Osmolator.

Since neither the reeffiller nor the Osmolator had been previously mentioned, I fail to see how the discussion has gotten repetitive, but it is your right to bow out whenever you wish.

Kevin

 

[GSchiemer]

Greg:

If you're ever admitted to a hospital and they need to administer some materials over a long period of time, maybe you should ask them if they would use your Litermeter.

tanksalot

Stan Furman

If they were dosing kalkwasser into my body, I'd ask for the LiterMeter.

 

[GSchiemer]

skireef,

You have summarized the issues well. The only other factor I would add to "Noise", and "Cost", is continuous-delivery vs. burst-delivery.

As I mentioned before, the main objection I had to certain dosing pump, henceforth to be referred by me as Product X (not to offend anyone), is that it did nothing for 9 minutes then delivered a burst of dosing agent (in my case Kalkwasser) in just a few seconds. If you have a sump or a really large tank, that methodology might be tolerable. However, suddenly dumping a considerable quantity of a caustic agent directly into my little 29 gal SPS reef is just not acceptable. Thus my previous statement: "I would not use [Product X] if I got one for free" still holds true in my situation.

Peter

Divide the total amount you dose in your 29 gallon aquarium over a 24 hour period by 150. That's the amount delivered in each dose by the LiterMeter. My guess is that it's around 5 ml at each dose, so I don't understand your argument at all. Again, you either didn't understand how to operate it or your just full of baloney. And why would anyone buy a $300 dosing system for a 29 gallon reef?

 

[GSchiemer]

Sorry, my reference to "similar" was that the reeffiller is a "preset delivery" device - ie, it delivers a certain amount of liquid at preset intervals. My statement refers to automated top-off. And I stick by my preference - my evaporation level changes quite a bit over the course of a year, and I had to adjust the amount of top off water delivered by my reeffiller about once a week. I don't have those issues with the Osmolator.

Since neither the reeffiller nor the Osmolator had been previously mentioned, I fail to see how the discussion has gotten repetitive, but it is your right to bow out whenever you wish.

Kevin

I'll have to disagree again. The ReefFiller doses continuously as long as it's receiving electrical power. The LiterMeter doses in increments depending upon the total amount you want to dose over a 24 hour period. It's a much more accurate system. The LiterMeter is secondarily controlled by a top-off switch and will shut off dosing completely if the level in a sump or aquarium reaches a pre-set limit. I believe it's similar to the Osmolator in this regard.

Take a look at the link above for a better explanation of its features and capabilities.

Greg

 

[DJ88©]

But the dosing that you do with the reeffiller isn't one that looks at the current level of water in the tank and doses top off according to the needs the system has.

I Have a very high grade meidcal diaphram pump and used it for less than a month. It was pheenomenal how accurate it was.

BUT I always had to monitor the evaporation rate of my tank. If more was evaporated or less my water level fluctuated over time. Not by a lot but enough that concerned me.

My Osmolator always keeps my sump sitting at the same level. Exactly the same. No adjusting.

The difference is that the dosing pump may be precise but it doesn't have a reference to increase dosing or shut off when the level fluctuates.

In effect it is a "dumb" system doing what it is told to do. It may to it exceptionally well but I do prefer the optical shutoff capabilities as well if something happens there is a faill safe float swtich to ensure if a failure happens that the dosing cease immediately and sounds an alarm.

 

[Tech Diver]

Again, you either didn't understand how to operate it or your just full of baloney. And why would anyone buy a $300 dosing system for a 29 gallon reef?

Well my friend, first you call me a shill, then you call me misinformed, and now you say I am just full of baloney. Your need to hurl insults at me is rather amusing. I can hardly wait to see you next post. I will not say anything about you (I'm sure the moderators and members of this forum have already formed their own opinions).

Now back to the analysis: My tank looses about 1.8 liters of water per day through evaporation. That equates to a 12 cc dose of Kalkwasser by Product X in just a few seconds. In my opinion, a 12 CC burst of Kalkwasser (a fairly potent caustic substance) in a tiny tank like mine is too severe. The problem is not that it will raise the overall pH, but that it is too concentrated at the region where it is introduced to the tank, and does not disperse fast enough before it comes in contact with my coral. My tank is so small that my Acroporas are only about an inch away from my power heads and pump nozzles. As I have stated before, burst-delivery is not an option for my tank. If you are pleased using Product X, then that is great (I am very happy for you). Each situation has its own solution that is best analyzed with an educated mind; not emotion.

 

[GSchiemer]

IMO and IME 12 CC of kalkwasser in a 29 gallon aquarium will not cause any problems, especially if it's dosed into the water flow, but it sounds like you're very pleased with your current solution, so that's all that matters.

 

[Tech Diver]

Greg.

I am pleased that we have both come to a mutual peaceful solution. I do not hold any grudges and hope that you and I will have constructive discourses in the future. Sincerely, Peter.

 

[SpectraPure]

First, please be aware that the pump this thread has been discussing stopped selling one year ago. The pump under discussion is a plastic German pump SpectraPure was purchasing and one we did not build or design. Early versions of this pump were much superior with machined, rather than molded rollers. Because of this decreasing quality and ever-increasing price, I swore I would never buy another German pump in my lifetime. I proceeded to design and build a precision pump fully capable for use in laboratory and other scientific applications. See URL http://www.spectrapure.com/St_prec_p0.htm . Our intent is to supply an OEM version to these markets as well.

I too am a professional engineer, working for over 13 years in Research and Development at Litton Electron Devices designing and building advanced 3rd generation Gallium Arsenide image intensifiers for the Military, specializing in design of ultra high vacuum chambers, metal organic vapor phase epitaxy of gallium arsenide/gallium aluminum arsenide photo cathodes, spectroradiometry and photometry typically working to submicron tolerances on advanced electron tubes--so by nature I too am very precise and quality minded.

The new pump is made out of precision-machined aluminum fabricated to exacting aerospace tolerances. For example, critical tolerances such as the rollers are machined to +/-0.0005ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚. The outer surface is polished to a mirror finish. Internal surfaces are held to a 63 micro inch finish and hard anodized to provide a durable and low-friction raceway. The pumpââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s planetary direct drive is at an 11:1 ratio, thus providing enough torque to generate over 40 pounds of pressure. This incredible lift enables the LiterMeterIII to pump over 60 feet above itself at a flow rate of over 250 ml/min.

The motor in the LiterMeterIII is unlike any motor in any toy. This motor is custom-designed by the premiere U.S. manufacturer of precision high reliability motors made to our specifications as a peristaltic drive motor. For example, many of the cars in NASCARÃ"šÃ‚® use five or more motors of this design for cooling purposes; a major ink-jet printer manufacturer also uses them.

Your quality comments are also peculiar to us in that our electronic circuit board is manufactured in an ISO 9001 facility, and more importantly, we have yet to have a single LiterMeterIII returned for a board failure. The box is gasketed and sealed to prevent moisture intrusion; therefore we have seen no advantage to the conformal coating that would add cost without advantage in our opinion.

We would like to correct some misinformation found on the above-referenced comparison chart, http://www.reefdosingpumps.com/Pages/features.html.

The LiterMeterIII does not have a battery backup nor needs one. The memory is non-volatile and we believe it to be a detriment to operate a dosing pump when power to the tank is interrupted and no circulation is available. This biased reference states our systemsââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ minimum dosing rate incorrectly as 250 ml/hr; instead it has a minimum dosing rate of 50ml/day or about 2 ml/hr. Our optimized pump geometry has virtually eliminated maintenance and re-calibration issues while greatly increasing the tubing life.

Our design philosophy for the LiterMeterIII is to provide a specific dose/quantity per day, with easy calibration to ensure precise dosing amounts each and every time. By doing so, we can offer a dosing system that meets the requirements from the smallest of reef tanks to the professional public aquarium application.

For those wishing to upgrade their LiterMeters' old plastic pump with our new high-performance all aluminum pump, we have available an upgrade program. Call SpectraPure for details.

Charles Mitsis
President and Chief Engineer
SpectraPure, Inc.

 

[GSchiemer]

Greg.

I am pleased that we have both come to a mutual peaceful solution. I do not hold any grudges and hope that you and I will have constructive discourses in the future. Sincerely, Peter.

No grudges here at all. I never take these exchanges too seriously. Frankly I wouldn't know who to be made at anyway.

Greg

 

[ChrisBuono]

I finally bought the SpectraPure LiterMeter III (and one remote pump) from MarineDepot. It cost a few hundred dollars, but not having to dose two parts of B-Ionic every morning is awesome. I did a lot of research (as much as I could find scouring the web). It wasn't an easy decision. I wanted something quiet, that would last many years, and ensure confidence in its consistent function. The setup was easy. I was disappointed it didn't ship with a way to mount it though. I find it to be very quiet. I can hear it, but it's faint. The price is steep, but overall, I'm very happy.