How to get sps to grow and color up?

[BHD]

Hello Everyone,

I have been keeping soft corals for 6 years but only start to get serious about SPS for a year now.
I have about 10 pieces of sps that have been in my tank for awhile now.
some of them grow a bit while other just stun and haven't grow at all except encrusting a bit more at its base.

A bit of Info about my tank.
Tank: stand 75 gallons
Sump: 30 gallons
Light: SunPowder 6x54 (All ATI bulbs)
Skimmer: EuroReef rate for 130 gallons I think, working good.
Dosing Alk and cal with brs dosers on timer.
Alk: 8.5-9
Cal: 450
2 true perc clowns, 2 yellowtail damsel, 2 lyretail anthias, 1 small Purple Tang.
I add some Mag for water change but never test it.
I run a bb tank and vacuum out the detritus in the tank and settled in the sump every sunday with 5 gallons of water change.

So my cal and alk are stable at the moment. I feed twice a day with a mixture of seafood that I made. The more I feed, the more color my Lyretail Anthias get, so I love feeding it. 1 piece of 2"x1" of seaweed for the Tang. I have hair algea so I know I have nitrate and Phosphate problem. I never test for anything else except Salinity, cal, and alk.

So now what? I have dialed my cal and alk in and they are stable.
What should I focus on next to get some growth and color?
My sps are brown and very dark. Even the sps that are growing are very dark as well.

Is it true that SPS require 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate while feeding the tank appropriately?
I am thinking of dosing Vinegar to get Nitrate and Phosphate to 0.
Have anyone dose Vinegar and able to get their Nitrate and Phospage to 0?

Any suggestions on how to get the sps to grow more and color up a bit would be great.

Thanks,
Bao

 

[eric mac]

Sps do like a clean environment. With sps you would like to keep ur No3 below 5ppm 1ppm or 0 is best and Po4 should be .02ppm or 0ppm. I've never ran just vinegar when carbon dosing. Usually people run vodka and vinegar together. The lower ur no3 and po4 are the healthier the zookzanthie algea inthe coral will be. I'm maintaining a health environment for good growth and coloration for sps is not about maintaining a few things. It's maintaining every thing stable. This is what S.P.S means to me Stability Promotes Success. Need to keep dkh, cal, mag, po4, no3, element, water movement, every thing in line.

Now recently after having a bad experience with bio-pellets (with is solid dosing vodka, sugar, vinegar) I found a product by red sea called No3 : Po4-X, Nopox for short. It is another form of carbon dosing. It's also apart of a program that red sea is promoting that help you keep a health environment in a reef aquarium. It is really easy to fallow as well. Helps you understand the roll that every thing plays in. A reef aquarium. Highly recommend taking a look at all 5 videos. Just google Red sea reef care program.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

Is it true that SPS require 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate while feeding the tank appropriately?
I am thinking of dosing Vinegar to get Nitrate and Phosphate to 0.
Have anyone dose Vinegar and able to get their Nitrate and Phospage to 0?


No it is not true that SPS need 0 Nitrate and 0 Phosphate. Your system needs all of the nutrients to be mobile in order to provide conditions healthy for sps. They do not need to be especially low if your system has the energy to keep the nutrients mobile. Problems occur when some part of your system becomes a nutrient sump in a place that is inconvenient to you. (like your display rocks) Every study that I have ever read found that algae will grow in a healthy reef if the fish population is decreased below a certain level. My system thrives with high nutrients. I get worried and increase my feeding if my algae isnt growing well in certain parts of my system. If not for my fish it would grow in my main display as well. Search my name for images and video if you want to see a high nutrient system that works. Stiving to eliminate nutrients is a common mistake and you can read hundreds of threads on this forum where people are killing their corals by doing that. What your corals need is a SYSTEM that keeps the nutrients mobile. Manage your system to that end and you will begin to have success with these animals. From the lil bit of info I see in your post, I would expect that you would see intense colors if you increased your light period. Your corals have a healthy population of algae. They just need more light to develop colors over them.

 

[OneReef]

High phosphates do retard SPS growth and coloration. It reduces the calcification of the coral

 

[chuckreef]

So now what? What should I focus on next to get some growth and color?
Any suggestions on how to get the sps to grow more and color up a bit would be great. Bao

1. Stop adding Mag, if your not testing and let the new ASW handle that. (Mag too high can reduce calcification (i.e, can slow growth)).

2. Start using GFO. Get a TLF reactor or similar and use GFO at about one cup. First, one cup for 1 day, then 1 cup for 2 days, then 1 for three days, then 1 for a week for a few weeks in a row, then change it every two to four weeks as needed.

3. As PO4 comes down (can take weeks to several months in systems with algae), watch the alkalinity. As PO4 drops, growth will kick in and more alk will be consumed, (i.e., the alk in the water will drop more than usual.) The color will follow with the increased alk uptake (increased growth rate).

 

[eric mac]

I'm having great success with a ultra low nutrient system. My No3 has been at 0ppm or undetectable for the last 3 months and Po4 has been around .02ppm for the last 2 months. I do feed quite a bit tho. I feed my fish every day and feed corals Red Sea Reef Energy A&B every other day.
Here's a tenuis I got 5 months ago

Here's a pic 3 months ago

here's the same tenuis last month

 

[reefinder]

Dave is not saying have extremly high phoshates. He is saying have high nutrients in the tank with a good export strategie so corals and fish will thrive in extreme health and color. I would love someone to prove that a tank with no nutrients and no algea can sustain a healthy tank for more than a year or two. Prolonged success is key in this hobby. There will always be fly by night products that strip the tanks, good luck with them for long term success.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

High phosphates do retard SPS growth and coloration. It reduces the calcification of the coral

Honestly if your system is funtional and healthy you should never see high phosphates. They should stay mobile or locked in your sumps. However if you think that high nutrients slow growth, how do you explain this tank then M8? This tank will grow algae anyplace the fish cant reach. Mixed 400 watt halides with no suplimental lighting. Growth is stupid. People who see this tank regularly are amazed at the amount of growth in this tank. High nutrients need high flow and high light, IE high energy to work but guess what. The natural reef is an exptremely high energy environment. The idea that corals need nutrient levels to be so low that algae wont grow and thrive is a harmful myth.

Hehe close up of my lokani frag

This tank is 5 years old. I have had most of the corals for at least ten years, some more. They thrive with a mobile high nutrient high energy tank while i have watched hunderds of corals die in low nutrient tanks over the years.

 

[BHD]

thanks everyone for your replies.

I don't think I will ever be able to strip my tank clean of nutrient and nitrate and phosphate. I do however would like to export the nitrate and phosphate by some other methods beside the skimmer and 5 gallons of water change weekly that I am doing now.

Dave,
you mentioned that your tank has high nutrient, How do you define Nutrient? do you mean nutrient as in high Nitrate and phosphate or something else?

You also said to "keep the nutrient mobile" What do you mean by mobile? alot of flow to keep the water moving?

How do you export nitrate and phosphate beside running a skimmer?

 

[BHD]

double post

 

[OneReef]

Honestly if your system is funtional and healthy you should never see high phosphates. They should stay mobile or locked in your sumps. However if you think that high nutrients slow growth, how do you explain this tank then M8? This tank will grow algae anyplace the fish cant reach. Mixed 400 watt halides with no suplimental lighting. Growth is stupid. People who see this tank regularly are amazed at the amount of growth in this tank. High nutrients need high flow and high light, IE high energy to work but guess what. The natural reef is an exptremely high energy environment. The idea that corals need nutrient levels to be so low that algae wont grow and thrive is a harmful myth.

This tank is 5 years old. I have had most of the corals for at least ten years, some more. They thrive with a mobile high nutrient high energy tank while i have watched hunderds of corals die in low nutrient tanks over the years.

I am quoting part of a Randy-Holmes Farley article on phosphates. If you don't agree, take it up with him.... Lol. Your tank looks great by the way.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

thanks everyone for your replies.

I don't think I will ever be able to strip my tank clean of nutrient and nitrate and phosphate. I do however would like to export the nitrate and phosphate by some other methods beside the skimmer and 5 gallons of water change weekly that I am doing now.

Dave,
you mentioned that your tank has high nutrient, How do you define Nutrient? do you mean nutrient as in high Nitrate and phosphate or something else?

You also said to "keep the nutrient mobile" What do you mean by mobile? alot of flow to keep the water moving?

How do you export nitrate and phosphate beside running a skimmer?

The waste produced by your fish and corals goes through several steps before it is completely removed from your system. It only stops as nitrates and phosphates in a broken system. In a working system the waste is broken down behond phosphates and nitrates. In a broken system the waste gets bottle-necked and builds up as phosphates and nitrates and probably other stuff as well that we arent sure about yet.

By keeping it mobile i mean makeing sure that you have the mechanical and biological means to continue the waste breakdown to its final products, High flow, High light, Bio cubes, deep sand beds, algae turf systems, water changes, filtersox, skimming , all are methods to aid the breakdown or export of these materials. You nay use some or all of them depending on the size of your system.

By high nutrient in my system I mean feed a lot and my fish poo a lot. I use many diferent schemes to aid in nutrient processing. Keeping a large healthy bacteria culure fed and going in the main tank is an important part of the process. I do it with natural carbon dosing and high flow over massive dark live rock. Basicly a natural gfo or carbon IE vodka dosing system. But anyway you chosse to do it, the trick is nutrient processing not nutrient elimination.

 

[mic209]

What does mobile nutrients mean?

 

[dzhuo]

High phosphates do retard SPS growth and coloration. It reduces the calcification of the coral

This is the general believe but unfortunately, things are almost never that simple in the real world. For example, a new study by Dunn et. al. published in January 2012 in the Journal of Experimental Marine Biology and Ecology showed that Acropora muricata (A. formosa) grew significantly faster (although with lower skeletal density) at phosphate concentration of 0.5 mg/l (ppm) than at 0.2 or 0.09 mg/l.

 

[dzhuo]

What does mobile nutrients mean?

It basically means you need to cycle the nutrient quickly and efficiently. I have said many times in the past that UNLS is really not an ideal environment for SPS nor is it natural. The coral reef is really a TCNS - Tightly Cycled Nutrient System where nutrients are abundant and being quickly absorbed and transferred. In a TCNS, everyone gets a chance to feed as the nutrient moves from layer to layer. In a UNLS, there is no available nutrient and everyone starve.

 

[djkms]

I dose vodka/vinegar and use tons of macro algae's for nutrient export. I maintain PO4 at .02-.04 and NO3 around 5ppm. I have a heavily stocked tank (lots of fish) and feed generously. How do I fall into all this then? Since I have detectable nitrate and phosphate am I correct in assuming that my system is not ULNS even though I use ULNS methods?

dzhuo you say that mobile means "cycle the nutrient quickly and efficiently", well isnt UNLS using bacteria to do just that, is there a method which is quicker and more efficient than bacteria?

I assume from these posts that ULNS works as intended but most overdo it by stripping out nutients too much??

 

[Dog boy Dave]

I dose vodka/vinegar and use tons of macro algae's for nutrient export. I maintain PO4 at .02-.04 and NO3 around 5ppm. I have a heavily stocked tank (lots of fish) and feed generously. How do I fall into all this then? Since I have detectable nitrate and phosphate am I correct in assuming that my system is not ULNS even though I use ULNS methods?

dzhuo you say that mobile means "cycle the nutrient quickly and efficiently", well isnt UNLS using bacteria to do just that, is there a method which is quicker and more efficient than bacteria?

I assume from these posts that ULNS works as intended but most overdo it by stripping out nutients too much??

I think you are all over it DJ. Its not the tools you use to maintain nutrient mobility its your overall goal. Most overdo it by stripping nutrients too much.

 

[Chrissypoo]

high phosphates do retard sps growth and coloration. It reduces the calcification of the coral

+100

 

[djkms]

Ok cool. I have a very unorthodox aquarium and have quite a few macro algaes as part of my display in my reef, this is why I keep a close eye on my nutrients and dont bottom them out. If I did I run the risk of my macros going sexual which could potentially wipe out my tank. Not something I am willing to risk.

 

[fishguy597]

Dog Boy Dave,
You say that in a broken system waste gets bottlenecked and basically the cycle doesnt get completed. You are saying to keep healthy bacteria culture feed to help with this. What are you doing to aid the bacteria? You also mentioned natural carbon dosing, is this just another way of vodka/viniger dosing? I would like to know a little more about your system and your strategy.
Thanks ,
Steve