Prairie Reef
New member
LOL - oops - I'm one of the 4 out of 3 that struggles with math...
That's 58% no, 42% "something."
That's 58% no, 42% "something."
How to QT correctly?
- Thread starter Fish_Kid99
- Start date
I'm not trying to add fuel to the fire, but this is an article (not my own work) from another site that I used to visit frequently that I found to be helpful for those that are just getting started in the quarantine process. I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post the link to a competing forum, thus the huge copy and paste.
There is discussion after the article that talks about tank size. One interesting point is that by placing a fish in a smaller environment, it sometimes causes diseases that might not manifest themselves immediately in a bigger more stable DT to come out more quickly.
My personal QT is a 50 breeder, with a section partitioned off to create an area for bioballs and a return pump. I keep a couple damsels in there permanently so I always have a cycled and established biofilter.
I did not quarantine early on in my aquarium efforts and the result was a lot of dead livestock and wasted money.
From Leebca:
A QUARANTINE PROCESS FOR FISH
There are almost as many different quarantine processes as there are aquarists in the hobby for more than 10 years. About the only thing there are more of are uninformed hobbyists who claim a quarantine is bad for fish, or who don't want to spend the time, or inaccurately claim not all fish can or should be quarantined, or who don't want to spend the $40. for a quarantine kit, or who don't believe it is necessary, or who believe that a healthy fish can survive any disease or parasite.
We, the Old Guard, for the most part know better. I wrote . . .more than 10 years because if you've been in the hobby that long, you've come to realize that performing a quarantine process is essential to good marine husbandry. The smarter aquarists know this from the outset and began using a quarantine process from the first day in the hobby!
What good is a quarantine process? There's a whole list that a quarantine process will:
1) Further acclimate the fish to captive life without being bothered by other fishes;
2) Get the fish to eat without it 'running away' and hiding;
3) Get the fish on the right foods and nutrients;
4) Allow the fish to eat without competition;
5) Give the fish a chance to recognize and become acclimated to the aquarist;
6) Give the fish a chance to heal any capture or travel injury or trauma;
7) Give the fish a chance to recover from any condition or disease;
8) Prepare the fish for a more competitive life in the community/reef tank; and
9) Protect the health of the display tank livestock.
Maybe you can think of more advantages/benefits of a quarantine process? I think the best phrase I have ever seen another person post was, "Quarantine provides a new fish sanctuary."
It may sound corny but ultimately -- The only thing you want to add to the marine system is the fish (as opposed to parasites, pathogens, and disease).
Most aquarists as I do, have an emotional investment with the fishes in the display tank. There is a money investment too. A new fish bringing disease into the display that kills other fish can be a significant loss of monies. But for me the far greater loss is the loss of fish life for failing to protect the display fishes from new arrivals bringing in disease. Ultimately, the quarantine process is a stress reducer not an added stress to a new fish.
Even though only about 1/3 novices and less experienced hobbyists perform a quarantine process, it is a process performed by all marine livestock professionals (e.g., public and private aquarium management).
I can only slightly alter the quarantine process found in this excellent and comprehensive article: An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
I disagree with the above article on one point: Length of time to hold a fish in quarantine. Four weeks is too short of time. I recommend to quarantine no less than 6 weeks. Professionals may quarantine fishes 3 or 4 weeks, but they take scrapings and/or clippings of the fish and perform microscopic examinations to identify the presence or absence of parasites and disease. Since I don't expect the usual marine aquarist to do this, 6 weeks in quarantine is the minimum I recommend.
This post is to outline my quarantine process in the context of the acquisition of a new fish; and to further detail some aspects of my quarantine process. Use it all or as much as you want, if you like what I do. Keep in mind that I can't/won't recommend anything less than this. Let's jump into the water. . .
NOTE: Only quarantine one fish at a time. Exceptions to this guideline are as follows: If the fishes are schooling fishes and you plan on acquiring the school or group of fishes from the same source/tank or the same water system of that source, then QT them together. If you acquire a mated pair from the same place and they were transferred through the system together, then QT them together. BUT, if you acquire two fishes from two different places or at different times with the intent of making them pair, QT them separately. Not only for the above listed reasons, but also so the prospective couple will meet each other for the first time in the DT.
The Quarantine process, abbreviated and in outline form:
Equipment and Supplies (The basic setup is often available as a 'special' package)
1.Properly sized bare-bottomed tank (about 5-7 gallons for every inch of fish, longer and shallow for fish like tangs that travel distances); this is the quarantine tank (QT)
2.Lighting (enough for the fish to see their food, at least)
3.Heater
4.Simple Sponge Filter (corner filter) -- one per 15-20 gallons of water; with air pump and air tubing
5.Cleaned PVC piping or plastic decorations so fish can hide
6.A place to put this QT
7.All the usual test kits (at least ammonia, nitrite, and pH (or pH meter - see 8.), optional: alkalinity)
8.Measuring devices: BUY the refractometer (forget using a hydrometer for hyposalinity treatments, which you're likely going to have to do sometime if you stay in this hobby more than a couple of years), thermometer, pH meter (if you can afford $60-80 for a handheld field meter), etc.
9.RO/DI or distilled water and your favorite artificial salt mix. Do not use tap water in the QT or display tank.
10.Treatment equipment and medications according to: Stocking the Marine Fish Medicine Cabinet
11.Optionally, a substrate of clean and pure silica sand is okay. Some silica sands are contaminated with carbonates and they must not be used.
[Note what's not on this list: carbonate substrate, powerheads, circulating pumps, skimmer, UV, ozone unit, landscaping, and carbonate containing rocks (live or otherwise)]
Preparation
The sponge filter should be in the display system (e.g., sump) and running all the time to be seeded with nitrifying bacteria to be the biological filter for the QT. It takes about 4 to 8 weeks for the sponge to be ready to serve as the QT biological filter.
Starting the QT
1.Fill QT with water from the display tank or make up fresh saltwater.
2.Start bio-filter (add sponge from display tank to QT and run it).
3.Tests: ammonia, nitrite, pH, specific gravity, and temperature of the QT water.
4.Make adjustments as needed.
5.The QT is ready for use.
Prepare and keep on hand saltwater made from artificial salts -- all future water changes will use this water not display tank water.
[NOTE: if the QT will not be used within a couple of days, the aquarist should keep the biological filter going by adding food to the QT and not removing it (see After Use below). Just before fish is added, siphon off any leftover foods and detritus. Just before adding fish, perform again the above (and 1. below) series of water quality tests.]
In Use Procedures
1.Monitor and test for ammonia, nitrite, pH, specific gravity and temperature daily.
2.Hold water quality constant and good.
(IF the biological/sponge filter was not seeded or it stops working during a treatment, control ammonia and nitrites by large water changes OR use chemical absorbents (e.g., Algone) so long as the chemicals won't and don't interfere with any medication. Make water changes whenever any ammonia is detected; make water changes when 0.05 ppm or more nitrite is detected when quarantine is performed on fish.)
3.Make adjustments to water daily to hold water test results in their proper range and to keep them steady (Make adjustments more often (2-3 times per day) if the biological filter is not or stops functioning.)
4.Remove uneaten foods 1 hour after each feeding time.
5.Make 50% or larger water changes every week or more frequently -- assuming no treatment is being administered. Follow good water change techniques: how do I do a water change? (If a treatment is administered, change water according to medication instructions. If water changes are needed during treatment and the treatment isn't over, medication must be added back to the QT water to keep medication at a constant, recommended concentration.)
After Use
The QT can remain running, with food (0.5 gram frozen food per 20 gallons) added every other day to keep the biological filter running,
OR
Return sponge filter to display tank system (e.g., sump) and keep it running until needed again. [NOTE: The return of the sponge filter to the DT assumes the QT was done properly. If there is ANY chance the fish may still be infected with something, then throw away the sponge filter and have a new one running in the DT. If the fish was ill and cured using medication, then the filter is not diseased (no more than the fish), but if copper medication was used for example and you are keeping a reef system with life forms sensitive to copper (or whatever medications was used) then dispose the filter.]
Tare down the QT; wash and rinse it out thoroughly; let dry; store so that it can't/won't be contaminated or gather dust.
Things Not To Do/Use
1. Don't use live rock in a QT. It may seem like a 'short cut' for a biological filter, but you won't be able to treat the fish with medications -- it will turn the live rock into base rock. (See What is Live Rock, Anyway? )
2. Don't use any carbon or general absorbing media -- it will interfere with any medication you might want to administer.
3. Avoid the use of any 'high-end' filtration system. Stick with a simple sponge filter. The benefits include: easy to move it into and from the display system for keeping it alive; it has no intake to injure a fish; it gently moves the water's surface; and doesn't create too much of a current. Your best control over water quality will be testing and making water changes. HOWEVER, if you do have to use a medication in the QT, then you might need carbon to remove the medication.
4. Don't count upon any of those products that say they will start your tank's biological filter by adding bacteria. They usually won't help you and since you may be using medication, they definitely won't be able to help. When you use medication, many of the bacteria will die or just fail to come out of their dormant state.
5. Don't attempt to quarantine multiple fishes.
5.a If you would like a pair of Anemonefishes, for instance, either use two quarantine tanks or quarantine them one at a time. There's no rush and there's absolutely no need to put them into your display at the same time.
5.b One problem with putting multiple fishes through the same quarantine is that one fish can have a disease and give it to the rest. Now you're treating fish that weren't ill to begin with. Or. . .The nightmare: Every fish in the QT can have a different disease or condition and they require different treatments. It's not worth the trouble, risk, or likely loss.
5.c Another problem is that putting multiple fishes through quarantine defeats many of the above listed benefits of using a quarantine process. Check out that list. Which of the listed benefits of using a quarantine process would be lost if multiple fishes were in the QT?
6. Don't assume everything is fine. Keep checking the water quality and especially pH. A water change can mend a world of hurts!
How the quarantine process fits into the acquisition of a new fish:
1.Aquarist has fish (in a bag in a box; or a bag in a bag).
2.Acclimate the fish to its new water according to: It Was Acclimation, I know. . .
3.Give the fish a freshwater dip according to: Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes
4.Place fish into QT & follow above general QT procedure.
5.De-worm all eating fishes in quarantine. (See below reference).
6.Treat certain fishes for anticipated diseases. See the 'Post Acclimation' recommendations of this reference: It Was Acclimation, I know. . .
7.Closely monitor fish for signs of injury, illness, parasites, infections, etc.
8.Perform any needed treatment.
9.Get the fish starting to eat: Food Presentation
10.Feed proper foods with vitamins and supplements according to: Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition
11.If fish does not require treatment, continue to monitor the fish in the QT for 6 weeks.
12.If fish was treated, then hold fish in QT for 4-6 weeks AFTER the cure is finished and the medication (if any) was removed from the QT water.
13.After the QT time, the fish is bagged and acclimated to the display tank water according to: It Was Acclimation, I know. . . (NOTE: this could be a shorted/abbreviated acclimation IF the QT water is very close in quality and chemistries as the display tank water).
14.ENJOY YOUR HEALTHY FISH IN ITS NEW HOME!
I have done the above (or a version of the above) for more than 35 years now. For over 35 years my display tanks have been free of parasites, disease microbes, flukes, intestinal worms, etc., etc. Together with reduced stress: Stress (and the Single Marine Fish) the fish live a long and healthy life (oldest one is now 19 years old). The above may look daunting or arduous, but it was written in great detail for those who enjoy the details. Once the aquarist has the equipment, it is an easy process. Doing this has a great payback!
Feel free to ask for any explanation for why I do any of the above, or ask if you have any questions.
There is discussion after the article that talks about tank size. One interesting point is that by placing a fish in a smaller environment, it sometimes causes diseases that might not manifest themselves immediately in a bigger more stable DT to come out more quickly.
My personal QT is a 50 breeder, with a section partitioned off to create an area for bioballs and a return pump. I keep a couple damsels in there permanently so I always have a cycled and established biofilter.
I did not quarantine early on in my aquarium efforts and the result was a lot of dead livestock and wasted money.
From Leebca:
A QUARANTINE PROCESS FOR FISH
There are almost as many different quarantine processes as there are aquarists in the hobby for more than 10 years. About the only thing there are more of are uninformed hobbyists who claim a quarantine is bad for fish, or who don't want to spend the time, or inaccurately claim not all fish can or should be quarantined, or who don't want to spend the $40. for a quarantine kit, or who don't believe it is necessary, or who believe that a healthy fish can survive any disease or parasite.
We, the Old Guard, for the most part know better. I wrote . . .more than 10 years because if you've been in the hobby that long, you've come to realize that performing a quarantine process is essential to good marine husbandry. The smarter aquarists know this from the outset and began using a quarantine process from the first day in the hobby!
What good is a quarantine process? There's a whole list that a quarantine process will:
1) Further acclimate the fish to captive life without being bothered by other fishes;
2) Get the fish to eat without it 'running away' and hiding;
3) Get the fish on the right foods and nutrients;
4) Allow the fish to eat without competition;
5) Give the fish a chance to recognize and become acclimated to the aquarist;
6) Give the fish a chance to heal any capture or travel injury or trauma;
7) Give the fish a chance to recover from any condition or disease;
8) Prepare the fish for a more competitive life in the community/reef tank; and
9) Protect the health of the display tank livestock.
Maybe you can think of more advantages/benefits of a quarantine process? I think the best phrase I have ever seen another person post was, "Quarantine provides a new fish sanctuary."
It may sound corny but ultimately -- The only thing you want to add to the marine system is the fish (as opposed to parasites, pathogens, and disease).
Most aquarists as I do, have an emotional investment with the fishes in the display tank. There is a money investment too. A new fish bringing disease into the display that kills other fish can be a significant loss of monies. But for me the far greater loss is the loss of fish life for failing to protect the display fishes from new arrivals bringing in disease. Ultimately, the quarantine process is a stress reducer not an added stress to a new fish.
Even though only about 1/3 novices and less experienced hobbyists perform a quarantine process, it is a process performed by all marine livestock professionals (e.g., public and private aquarium management).
I can only slightly alter the quarantine process found in this excellent and comprehensive article: An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com
I disagree with the above article on one point: Length of time to hold a fish in quarantine. Four weeks is too short of time. I recommend to quarantine no less than 6 weeks. Professionals may quarantine fishes 3 or 4 weeks, but they take scrapings and/or clippings of the fish and perform microscopic examinations to identify the presence or absence of parasites and disease. Since I don't expect the usual marine aquarist to do this, 6 weeks in quarantine is the minimum I recommend.
This post is to outline my quarantine process in the context of the acquisition of a new fish; and to further detail some aspects of my quarantine process. Use it all or as much as you want, if you like what I do. Keep in mind that I can't/won't recommend anything less than this. Let's jump into the water. . .
NOTE: Only quarantine one fish at a time. Exceptions to this guideline are as follows: If the fishes are schooling fishes and you plan on acquiring the school or group of fishes from the same source/tank or the same water system of that source, then QT them together. If you acquire a mated pair from the same place and they were transferred through the system together, then QT them together. BUT, if you acquire two fishes from two different places or at different times with the intent of making them pair, QT them separately. Not only for the above listed reasons, but also so the prospective couple will meet each other for the first time in the DT.
The Quarantine process, abbreviated and in outline form:
Equipment and Supplies (The basic setup is often available as a 'special' package)
1.Properly sized bare-bottomed tank (about 5-7 gallons for every inch of fish, longer and shallow for fish like tangs that travel distances); this is the quarantine tank (QT)
2.Lighting (enough for the fish to see their food, at least)
3.Heater
4.Simple Sponge Filter (corner filter) -- one per 15-20 gallons of water; with air pump and air tubing
5.Cleaned PVC piping or plastic decorations so fish can hide
6.A place to put this QT
7.All the usual test kits (at least ammonia, nitrite, and pH (or pH meter - see 8.), optional: alkalinity)
8.Measuring devices: BUY the refractometer (forget using a hydrometer for hyposalinity treatments, which you're likely going to have to do sometime if you stay in this hobby more than a couple of years), thermometer, pH meter (if you can afford $60-80 for a handheld field meter), etc.
9.RO/DI or distilled water and your favorite artificial salt mix. Do not use tap water in the QT or display tank.
10.Treatment equipment and medications according to: Stocking the Marine Fish Medicine Cabinet
11.Optionally, a substrate of clean and pure silica sand is okay. Some silica sands are contaminated with carbonates and they must not be used.
[Note what's not on this list: carbonate substrate, powerheads, circulating pumps, skimmer, UV, ozone unit, landscaping, and carbonate containing rocks (live or otherwise)]
Preparation
The sponge filter should be in the display system (e.g., sump) and running all the time to be seeded with nitrifying bacteria to be the biological filter for the QT. It takes about 4 to 8 weeks for the sponge to be ready to serve as the QT biological filter.
Starting the QT
1.Fill QT with water from the display tank or make up fresh saltwater.
2.Start bio-filter (add sponge from display tank to QT and run it).
3.Tests: ammonia, nitrite, pH, specific gravity, and temperature of the QT water.
4.Make adjustments as needed.
5.The QT is ready for use.
Prepare and keep on hand saltwater made from artificial salts -- all future water changes will use this water not display tank water.
[NOTE: if the QT will not be used within a couple of days, the aquarist should keep the biological filter going by adding food to the QT and not removing it (see After Use below). Just before fish is added, siphon off any leftover foods and detritus. Just before adding fish, perform again the above (and 1. below) series of water quality tests.]
In Use Procedures
1.Monitor and test for ammonia, nitrite, pH, specific gravity and temperature daily.
2.Hold water quality constant and good.
(IF the biological/sponge filter was not seeded or it stops working during a treatment, control ammonia and nitrites by large water changes OR use chemical absorbents (e.g., Algone) so long as the chemicals won't and don't interfere with any medication. Make water changes whenever any ammonia is detected; make water changes when 0.05 ppm or more nitrite is detected when quarantine is performed on fish.)
3.Make adjustments to water daily to hold water test results in their proper range and to keep them steady (Make adjustments more often (2-3 times per day) if the biological filter is not or stops functioning.)
4.Remove uneaten foods 1 hour after each feeding time.
5.Make 50% or larger water changes every week or more frequently -- assuming no treatment is being administered. Follow good water change techniques: how do I do a water change? (If a treatment is administered, change water according to medication instructions. If water changes are needed during treatment and the treatment isn't over, medication must be added back to the QT water to keep medication at a constant, recommended concentration.)
After Use
The QT can remain running, with food (0.5 gram frozen food per 20 gallons) added every other day to keep the biological filter running,
OR
Return sponge filter to display tank system (e.g., sump) and keep it running until needed again. [NOTE: The return of the sponge filter to the DT assumes the QT was done properly. If there is ANY chance the fish may still be infected with something, then throw away the sponge filter and have a new one running in the DT. If the fish was ill and cured using medication, then the filter is not diseased (no more than the fish), but if copper medication was used for example and you are keeping a reef system with life forms sensitive to copper (or whatever medications was used) then dispose the filter.]
Tare down the QT; wash and rinse it out thoroughly; let dry; store so that it can't/won't be contaminated or gather dust.
Things Not To Do/Use
1. Don't use live rock in a QT. It may seem like a 'short cut' for a biological filter, but you won't be able to treat the fish with medications -- it will turn the live rock into base rock. (See What is Live Rock, Anyway? )
2. Don't use any carbon or general absorbing media -- it will interfere with any medication you might want to administer.
3. Avoid the use of any 'high-end' filtration system. Stick with a simple sponge filter. The benefits include: easy to move it into and from the display system for keeping it alive; it has no intake to injure a fish; it gently moves the water's surface; and doesn't create too much of a current. Your best control over water quality will be testing and making water changes. HOWEVER, if you do have to use a medication in the QT, then you might need carbon to remove the medication.
4. Don't count upon any of those products that say they will start your tank's biological filter by adding bacteria. They usually won't help you and since you may be using medication, they definitely won't be able to help. When you use medication, many of the bacteria will die or just fail to come out of their dormant state.
5. Don't attempt to quarantine multiple fishes.
5.a If you would like a pair of Anemonefishes, for instance, either use two quarantine tanks or quarantine them one at a time. There's no rush and there's absolutely no need to put them into your display at the same time.
5.b One problem with putting multiple fishes through the same quarantine is that one fish can have a disease and give it to the rest. Now you're treating fish that weren't ill to begin with. Or. . .The nightmare: Every fish in the QT can have a different disease or condition and they require different treatments. It's not worth the trouble, risk, or likely loss.
5.c Another problem is that putting multiple fishes through quarantine defeats many of the above listed benefits of using a quarantine process. Check out that list. Which of the listed benefits of using a quarantine process would be lost if multiple fishes were in the QT?
6. Don't assume everything is fine. Keep checking the water quality and especially pH. A water change can mend a world of hurts!
How the quarantine process fits into the acquisition of a new fish:
1.Aquarist has fish (in a bag in a box; or a bag in a bag).
2.Acclimate the fish to its new water according to: It Was Acclimation, I know. . .
3.Give the fish a freshwater dip according to: Freshwater Dip for Marine Fishes
4.Place fish into QT & follow above general QT procedure.
5.De-worm all eating fishes in quarantine. (See below reference).
6.Treat certain fishes for anticipated diseases. See the 'Post Acclimation' recommendations of this reference: It Was Acclimation, I know. . .
7.Closely monitor fish for signs of injury, illness, parasites, infections, etc.
8.Perform any needed treatment.
9.Get the fish starting to eat: Food Presentation
10.Feed proper foods with vitamins and supplements according to: Feeding Marine Fish and Fish Nutrition
11.If fish does not require treatment, continue to monitor the fish in the QT for 6 weeks.
12.If fish was treated, then hold fish in QT for 4-6 weeks AFTER the cure is finished and the medication (if any) was removed from the QT water.
13.After the QT time, the fish is bagged and acclimated to the display tank water according to: It Was Acclimation, I know. . . (NOTE: this could be a shorted/abbreviated acclimation IF the QT water is very close in quality and chemistries as the display tank water).
14.ENJOY YOUR HEALTHY FISH IN ITS NEW HOME!
I have done the above (or a version of the above) for more than 35 years now. For over 35 years my display tanks have been free of parasites, disease microbes, flukes, intestinal worms, etc., etc. Together with reduced stress: Stress (and the Single Marine Fish) the fish live a long and healthy life (oldest one is now 19 years old). The above may look daunting or arduous, but it was written in great detail for those who enjoy the details. Once the aquarist has the equipment, it is an easy process. Doing this has a great payback!
Feel free to ask for any explanation for why I do any of the above, or ask if you have any questions.
Prairie Reef
New member
I would just like to point out a couple of things quickly - :deadhorse:
1) Nothing in here is anything I would disagree with. It sounds like it should work very well.
2) This is *just* for fish, no mention of corals, shrimp, etc... we know ich and marine velvet have water borne elements of their life cycle. My suspicion is that if you go to these lengths you should also be QT them as well - separate tank since in this article they talk about treating IN the QT.
3) Notice they talk about treating for somethings proactively, flukes/worms, etc. So at 6 weeks they are assuming some treatment - but also remember the article says continue QT for at least 6 weeks AFTER meds are all gone in the system - which sounds more like 8-10 weeks now.
4) Notice that they are talking about DAILY water tests and water changes/adjustments - and only with new saltwater. And you also need to top off with RODI to keep salinity stable. Also remember if you are doing Hypo and your water evaporates for a day or two, suddenly, you're no longer at hypo and you have to start the clock over.
5) Notice that they are talking about DAILY observation for symptoms
6) Notice they are talking about daily removal (siphon I assume) old food out which means you'll need to A: Top off with extra salt water at the very least.
6) Notice that the are talking about watching pH - remember you dont' have sand and rock to buffer the water here.
7) I found it very helpful for the recommendation re: sponges per gallons of tank - I was under this by almost a factor of 2 which probably contributed to a good deal of my woes.
8) One fish at a time - AND - tank large enough for the largest (neediest) fish you will be adding.
9) Notice that it also take 4-8 weeks for the biofiler to get going as well before you even put in the fish in the QT.
Now - I like the trick of the bioballs and damsels - I like the added sponge filters. BUT - and this may sound callous - here is the rub.
To stock a tank with $200-300 of fish - I've now (hypothetically anyway) had a QT running with:
- 2-3 times a week water changes (money and time for salt and prep and storage).
- electricity for heat and light (ok minimal light).
- Daily water tests (these tests allow for about 25-50 tests per kit at $25-$35 per kit).
- What sounds to me like at least 1/2 to an hour of work daily (testing, toping off evap, siphoning, adjusting, water changes, observation for symptoms, mixing water). Another hour of work a day if you end up having to treat the fish (dips, more testing of medication levels, etc.). Another hour if your biofilter fails (daily large water changes and extra mixing salt- so potentially 3 hours of work a day if things go wrong....
- FOR A YEAR, AT LEAST (to stock 5-6 fish). And that assumes there is a healthy specimen of what you want at your LFS the very day that you release you fish into the DT AND that no one gets sick.
Please hear me! Im NOT saying "DONT QT." But lets stop with the "QT is easy, simple and will keep your fish safe" simplicity. This seems to come very frequently from people that want to push "best practice" without personal experience of "practical application." My belief as to why more people don't QT is that they fail and they are ashamed (I was) because they had no idea what they were getting into due to admonitions about how easy and simple it is.
Ever wonder why STORES, even the BEST ones don't just QT all the fish they sell and save us all the hassel? It's because it would make that $15 firefish a $500 fish (to keep volume to meet demand and make up for their losses of fish that don't make it and buy medicine to treat and keep one fish per tank etc. etc. etc.)
It takes work, space, time, and money. And cutting corners, or not QT'ing some fish, or cutting the time short in the QT means that you did all that work for nothing. QT is an all or nothing thing. Either you can do it or it is pointless (at least has drastically reduced effectiveness).
I will 100% agree with you that QT can be very tedious and time consuming to do it correctly. I've had my DT up for about a year and a half now and I'm slowly, but surely, still adding stock. I have taken some "stocking breaks" for a couple of months at a time though. I'm taking it ultra slow I guess you could say =).
The main thing that I personally gain from QT is peace of mind knowing that I am doing everything I can to prevent disease from entering my main DT and giving the new fish time to acclimate and eat in a safe environment for a while. Adding a fish directly to the DT, for me, is just not an option any more after I encountered an ich outbreak and lost 3 fish a few months into my reefing experience.
I think one of the reasons stores don't QT is because it is expensive as you state and they wouldn't be in business if they couldn't make a profit. This is also one reason why I do QT. I don't trust my LFS to have disease free systems. Many times, stores will also run a low concentration of copper in their fish systems which just seems to mask the disease/problem short term for longer enough for them to "turn over" the fish for a profit.
As far as cost for QT for me here in the south, it isn't too bad but it does add to the expense like everything else (light and water is cheap in the south).
I've never really cared how much I spend on QT, but for my own records, I'll document now =)
1. 20 gallon long QT tank - 20 bucks at petco $1 gallon sale
2. AquaClear 30 gallon HOB filter - $40 dollars (you could use a $10 sponge filter instead), but for my records, that's what I have spent.
3. DIY 20 gallon stand - $25 for lumber. I had screws and saw, etc.
4. Seachem cupramine bottle 50 ml - $6.49 from premium aquatics
5. Seachem copper test kit - $12.79
6. 1 - Seachem ammonia alert badge - $6.49
7. PVC for hiding approximately - $8
8. small air pump - $4 from walmart + $1 for tubing = $5
9. RO/DI water - cheap. Let's say $10 for 10 weeks worth (ware and tare on the filter + water + our crazy sewer prices).
10. Salt over 10 weeks - I use about 50 gallons over the course of the 10 weeks usually. I am lazy on the WC's in my QT I will admit =D. $5 bucks for reef crystals.
11. Power over 10 weeks - $5 (We have dirt cheap power here, so I may be overestimating this).
12. Huge bottle of PraziPro - $12
Total for the very first QT = $150 dollars.
For all future QT, I don't need most of the other stuff. Assuming I still have copper and the copper test kit, stand, tank, air pump and PVC here is my breakdown.
1. New Seachem ammonia alert badge - $6.49
2. RO/DI water - $10 bucks over 10 weeks
3. Salt over 10 weeks $5
4. Power - $5
Total = $26.49
Total investment in my DT so far........................... my wife keeps pointing that out to me asking why I picked such an expensive hobby =D.
Approximately $10k!!! I still don't see how I've spent that much in the DT... but I have LOL.
And to think after all of this she gave me a fish closet to do whatever I please with! My QT's will go in there (I will be getting another 20 long for coral QT) when I'm done building it. It's not much of a loss in space for the house, though as it is just a closet right off the garage
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Prairie Reef
New member
Well you are an inspiration - no joke, I mean that. I'm thinking that my cost on salt was a LOT more... but maybe not.
As I said - I'm not opposed - I'm at nearly full stock on fish at this point - I've considered a 75gal acceptable Tang to replace my LPS nipping Flame Angel - but I would need a bigger QT anyway... grrr. I'm working on some other equipment issues right now (new lights to pay off, emptying LR from the sump so I can easily clean out detritus from there, getting more filter socks so I can change them more often, and balancing my feeding).
I think this has been a good discussion and certainly offers some great tips and I know if I QT again (which I'm inclined I might try again) I'll have a better shot than I did before.
wooden_reefer
New member
The purpose of UV in QT is to vastly reduce the waterborne concentration of pathogenic bacteria and virusus.
What good does this do?
Fish like us have general immunity even without prior exposure, such as white blood cell. But this general defense is very limited. It is known in medicine that even without the prior exposure, often low level of exposure will not result in disease manifestation.
It is indeed useful to vastly reduce waterborne pathogenic bacteria concentration by UV.
After antibodies are developed, the UV is less useful. The first few months after introduction of the last fish is critical.
Certainly, bacteria not waterborne is the wildcard. Fish can come into contact with such and become infected.
After I started to use UV, external bacterial infection have become mush less common and less virulent (less infective for all fish in a tank).
An aquarium is a closed system; without some means to vastly reduce waterborne pathogens, many problems can develop.
sleepydoc
Team RC
Interesting that in the article posted above, the list of QT benefits includes "recovery from diseases" but doesn't include discovery of diseases and/or prophylactic treatment.
I agree with In addition to all the worthwhile items on that list, I think that the discovery and treatment of any latent disease the fish may be carrying and the protection is one of the biggest benefits. Perhaps this was implied by the last point, but it should be explicitly stated.
I've lost 3 fish in QT - one jumped through a hole in the screen, one to a dosing mistake on my part and another to velvet. The fish with velvet looked totally healthy at the LFS (which has a 2 week QT of its own.) It wasn't until about 6 days in QT that it got sick and eventually died. Had I simply added him to my DT, I could have lost far more that one fish and/or increased my work exponentially.
I agree with In addition to all the worthwhile items on that list, I think that the discovery and treatment of any latent disease the fish may be carrying and the protection is one of the biggest benefits. Perhaps this was implied by the last point, but it should be explicitly stated.
I've lost 3 fish in QT - one jumped through a hole in the screen, one to a dosing mistake on my part and another to velvet. The fish with velvet looked totally healthy at the LFS (which has a 2 week QT of its own.) It wasn't until about 6 days in QT that it got sick and eventually died. Had I simply added him to my DT, I could have lost far more that one fish and/or increased my work exponentially.
Prairie Reef
New member
This makes sense - and I would totally agree with the premise. In fact when I'm backpacking for a week or more at a shot I put my own health in the hands of UV sterilization as it is my primary means of water purification. I have a 10 oz UV water sterilizer that kills not only bacteria, but protozoa and most viruses as well. It even kills cryptosporidium spores as well. I know the biology of how it works - I think it is pretty cool. It doesn't actually kill the bacteria proper but rather radically mutates the DNA so that it can't replicate and therefore can't cause disease.
My comments were not to cast doubt on the use of UV. My comments were only to say that if we listen to all the advice we get in this hobby - we'll be very poor looking at empty tanks. On the other hand - we need some way of deciding that certain advice or input has better value than others and that we need to be able to figure things in terms of "return on investment" rather than "best practice".
QT is one of those area's of reefing - (like sand bed chemistry - *deep sucking breath*) that has a lot of over simplifications, a lot of expectations that are out of proportion to results, and a lot of hidden traps. New hobbyists venture in armed with well meaning advice only to find themselves under informed, in crisis, with conflicting information and demoralized. On the other hand, if they understand this won't be easy. It takes a lot of time. It has to be done consistently across livestock, your tank has to be big enough for the demands of your most demanding fish - we increase the chance of success and bring expectations inline with reality.
Fish_Kid99
New member
Ive heard4~6 weeks so im planning on QT my fish and corals for about 5 weeks. Im going to have to find another tank for QT corals. Does anyone knkw when the next PETCO $1 per gallon sale is?
I'm not sure about PETCO, but if you have a Pet Supplies Plus, they have a $1 a gallon sale going on through today. No 40 breeders though =(.
I believe it is just 10,20,29, and 55's.
Fish_Kid99
New member
Ok thanks. Kinda wish I wouldve asked this earlier because after asking my parents They said that they dont believe in QT. They just want me to take a gamble and if the fish dies it dies. 
sleepydoc
Team RC
The problem is you're not just gabling with the fish you bought, you're gambling with every other fish in your DT as well.
I got a 29 gal 'complete' setup from petco on sale for $69. I replaced the hood with some netting and got a better heater that I trust, but it's a great size for a QT. It also doubles as a hospital tank when needed.
I recently kept my 2" kole tang in it for 6 weeks after I bought her and she did quite well. No, it's not an appropriate size for such a fish long-term, but a QT is by definition a short term arrangement.
I got a 29 gal 'complete' setup from petco on sale for $69. I replaced the hood with some netting and got a better heater that I trust, but it's a great size for a QT. It also doubles as a hospital tank when needed.
I recently kept my 2" kole tang in it for 6 weeks after I bought her and she did quite well. No, it's not an appropriate size for such a fish long-term, but a QT is by definition a short term arrangement.
Fish_Kid99
New member
This is exactly what I told them but they say that it is too much effort and that I wont keep on it. They just dont know anything (i mean anything) at all about this hobby. I try to explain but theydont listen. But no matter what they say im still going to QT anyway.
Spyderturbo007
New member
I'll have to tell that to my two spot bristle tooth when I get home from work. He's been in a 20 long for 5 weeks and is just fine.
Fish_Kid99
New member
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