How would I know if my seahorse is pragnant

Keep us posted on how the babies are doing! In addition to what you're researching, look up a 'kreisel' system. Some people keep the babies in DIY kreisels with green water. Not sure if the survival rate is better... But I supposed you could try it out by placing half of the babies in a kreisel and leave the other half in the tank.

On a side note, what type of sea horse is in Mr. Walden's third picture (Post #2)? It looks stunning.
 
thanks all. making a little nursery in my closet, hopefully will finish by tomorrow. will post some pics for opinions.

since I suck at sorting out the shells from the actual hatched Brine shrimp, I will star decaping from tonight.

the babies, hmmm, some are doing fine, some arent :S its my first try so my goal is to set up a nice nursery and get in a routine. and have everything ready seems like my other male is getting bigger as well :)
 
This part looks like the info I found: Storage and Packaging: SELCO is available in 1-kg bottles, 9-bottles per case. SELCO has a shelf life of 12-months from the date of manufacture. Product should be stored in a cool, dark and dry environment (4-15 degrees Celsius). Once opened, product should be used within a one month and stored in a refrigeration type temperatures. Do not freeze

But it wasn't on INVE site but another site selling their products.

This is part of the info I worked long & hard researching into what is best for my H. zosterae. I have a ongoing thread on the org & a UK site where I post. It is part of a response to someone wanting to know what I try. I list the things I try, my concern with the different product & so on.

So please give credit where credit is due.

Thank you,

Tim
 
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Keep us posted on how the babies are doing! In addition to what you're researching, look up a 'kreisel' system. Some people keep the babies in DIY kreisels with green water. Not sure if the survival rate is better... But I supposed you could try it out by placing half of the babies in a kreisel and leave the other half in the tank.

On a side note, what type of sea horse is in Mr. Walden's third picture (Post #2)? It looks stunning.

Pot Belly is the common nane & I do not have spell check for the latin. Comes out of AU & is a coolwater species.
 
Where is he selling them at? I know a lot people in the UK are looking for them right now. Any help or name is most helpful.
 
While we agree to disagree, I'm concerned you are advising people of information and/or methods not scientifically supported, and indeed, not supported by the major breeders in the US.
It's fine for you to do what you want, but please do not push unsupported information on to others.
What I have stated is already stated and proven scientifically with much of that information in the link I gave you.
Can you supply me with documentation to support your claims?
It is interesting that originally you advise enrichening the bbs with huffa in the refrigerator yet in this last post you acknowledge that they cannot be enriched at this stage.
I do not use Selco type products nor do I advocate use of those products unless that is all that is available to someone until they can order in better enrichment. Originally it was because off the deterioration aspect, but now mainly because the AlgaMac products I DO use, produce superior nutrient profiles with much better storage capability.
I do agree that San Fran strain of artemia are smaller and have a bit better nutrient profile, mainly in vitamins. However the higher vitamin C profile degrades quickly on hatching as it changes from a stable form in the cyst to an unstable form once hatched.
The ammino acid part of the profile is basically the same no matter what the strain of artemia.
Fatty acid profiles also are similar and NONE have sufficient DHA for the HEALTHY needs of most fry of any species.
Protein levels are also pretty much the same range with the San Fran and the Great Salt Lakes with nauplii protein levels ranging from 41.6 to 47.2%DW.
As for size, that is not needed for the benthic fry such as your barbouri, and for pelagic fry it is again not needed when starting them out with enriched rotifers.

TBH with you Ray, I find very few people willing to share honest info with people. I feel they have a vested interest. Besides you, Dan U, Tami, Peka & people on the org, I tend to hear & see ***My friend/ my breeder friend*** answers. (Sorry if I forgot someone.)

You can only help someone to a point. In the end they can listen or ingore you.

Tim
 
Hippocampus Abdominalis
or
Pot Bellied/Big Bellied Seahorse
soon to be available in a British seahorse seller shop in the next few weeks.
Tim,BTW i can appreciate that you did an article on another forum about dwarves but the part about food enrichment is in the public domain and if you know where to research is easily available. but if you care to look back on a post i did on another forum 18 months ago it was part of that on the enrichment of food for fry.so sorry if i didn't cite you as the contributor but as i already had the information from the nst i didn't feel that i had to.as this was nothing to do with dwarves.i have had articles reproduced that i have produced and had published reprinted verbatim and havnt said a word about it.as i actually found it to be a form of flattery.
 
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For those raising fry and enrichening brine shrimp, here is a link you may be interested in.
There is also mention about the San Fran strain having higher EPA as Lucycat has mentioned.
However it also states that they are lacking in DHA which is a desired component of enrichment.
Note also that it mentions "significant increase in fatty acids (HUFA's) after 12 hours and significantly higher levels after 24 hours of enrichment."
http://www.fishingchimes.com/manipu.htm

The above link is considered to be proper documentation.
 
While we agree to disagree, I'm concerned you are advising people of information and/or methods not scientifically supported, and indeed, not supported by the major breeders in the US.
It's fine for you to do what you want, but please do not push unsupported information on to others.
What I have stated is already stated and proven scientifically with much of that information in the link I gave you.
Can you supply me with documentation to support your claims?
It is interesting that originally you advise enrichening the bbs with huffa in the refrigerator yet in this last post you acknowledge that they cannot be enriched at this stage.
I do not use Selco type products nor do I advocate use of those products unless that is all that is available to someone until they can order in better enrichment. Originally it was because off the deterioration aspect, but now mainly because the AlgaMac products I DO use, produce superior nutrient profiles with much better storage capability.
I do agree that San Fran strain of artemia are smaller and have a bit better nutrient profile, mainly in vitamins. However the higher vitamin C profile degrades quickly on hatching as it changes from a stable form in the cyst to an unstable form once hatched.
The ammino acid part of the profile is basically the same no matter what the strain of artemia.
Fatty acid profiles also are similar and NONE have sufficient DHA for the HEALTHY needs of most fry of any species.
Protein levels are also pretty much the same range with the San Fran and the Great Salt Lakes with nauplii protein levels ranging from 41.6 to 47.2%DW.
As for size, that is not needed for the benthic fry such as your barbouri, and for pelagic fry it is again not needed when starting them out with enriched rotifers.

i enrich hufa after the fry get to 2 weeks old and can eat the larger bb but they are also starting on frozen food at this point .i also advocate not feeding newborn fry any any bb that is older then 4 hrs so it is better nutritionally.we dont have access to AlgaMac products over here and as the dha/selco is not 100% reliable what are we supposed to do.
you must remember that over here we are limited on some of the products we can use, we are not even allowed to import them legally.i raise reidi's as well as barbs so the benthic/pelagic fry barrier doesnt apply.
i dont think you realize how lucky you are to have access to antibiotics etc in fact it is illegal to have antibiotics for fish without a vets certificate over here,no walking into petsmart and picking up what you need from the shelf although we can buy chloramphenicol drops over here which are banned in certain states there.
i will try and find the research into the nutricional values of bb at the various stages of its life.
again rotifers are expensive over here and not always available which is why i got advice from a reputable breeder and the nst but not everyone is able to produce papers and research on their work especially if they are also running a business.
but as i said i have seen his seahorses and i know where he supplies them to and i actually have 3 of them myself and i know of others who have them.
At the moment in england, and more then likely where you are there are too many substanded seahorses around which are either too immature or hybrids. which is why more independant and home seahorse owners should be encouraged.

the biggest problem we are facing in britain is most of the independants are giving up as its not cost effective to breed so we will get more and more weak and so called captive bred imported seahorses which only last a few months and are riddled with vibro even reidi's.even the breeder i know has packed in at present as he is unable to get decent replacement brood stock as his are now 8 th gen.
may i ask how much you are expected to pay for say a barb as over here its $120 to $150 each and about the same for erectus etc the only cheaper ones are kudas that are $50/$80 or reidi$80/$90 or the giant which are what i have go for $180 each.i dont get a fraction of that when i sell to the shops in fact one shop offered me $16 each in credit notes so is it worth it really.
 
taken from the skeptical aquarist


The general agreement is that newly-hatched nauplii ("baby brine shrimp" or "bbs") use up their initial food reserves during their first twelve to twenty-fours hours: while the nauplii are still feeding on their yolk reserves their nutritional value is at its highest. After that, the increasingly starved nauplii are much less nutritious for your fish fry. More specifically, Artemia don't begin to feed until after their second molt.

Brine shrimp nauplii begin life rich in "good" fats and in the long-chain highly unsaturated fatty acids (HUFAs). Various fatty acids are precursors--� building blocks--� of fish tissues, of hormones and other elements of the immune system. Some fatty acids have to be taken in from the diet, because the fish cannot manufacture them. The nutritional value of newly-hatched brine shrimp nauplii, once they have reached the feeding stage, and of the adults can be improved by keeping them in a brine enriched with Selcon, which stands for "Self-Emulsified Liquid Concentrate." This technique is called "bio-enrichment" or "bioencapsulation" Bio-enrichment formulas like Selcon are "high HUFA" formulas. Essentially what's involved is some fish oil, such as cod liver oil, that's been whipped together with an emulsifying agent, like lecithin. If you needed lots of the stuff at a low price, you could do this yourself; but you can get Selcon from a stylish LFS (it's a good test of an unfamiliar LFS) or from several on-line distributors. Cichlid fry raised using Selcon-enriched brine shrimp are claimed to have brighter permanent color. I can't vouch for this from personal experience, but I pass it on to you.

this was also taken from the bug farm
While there is little dispute regarding the benefits of using newly hatched brine shrimp as a primary food for aquatic larvae, the timing of that use relative to the hatching time is frequently forgotten. Brine shrimp have a fairly narrow window of high nutritional value. If one does not feed the shrimp to the the larvae within about 8 hours (8 hours is on the high side of the equation), the shrimp lose a significant percentage of the shrimp's original nutritional advantage. The shrimp use that nutritional value for their own development as it was intended, but because of their rapid development, musch of that value become waste into the water column. There are ways to compensate for that nutritional lose but the methods are more complicated and costly than simply feeding the nauplii within the eight hour window (a window that may narrow as the temperature of the shrimp hatching water goes up).
 
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i also advocate not feeding newborn fry any any bb that is older then 4 hrs so it is better nutritionally.we dont have access to AlgaMac products over here and as the dha/selco is not 100% reliable what are we supposed to do.
First of all, as it is proven that 24 hour enriched bbs are far superior to even nauplii at 30 minutes after hatching, I would use the product that you say you are enriching with at the 2 week stage and give them that 2 week advantage.
you must remember that over here we are limited on some of the products we can use, we are not even allowed to import them legally.
I have the same problem here in Canada. I'd suggest you contact Dan Underwood of seahorsesource.com and ask if he will send product to you as I believe he may be able to ship to Britain.
i dont think you realize how lucky you are to have access to antibiotics etc in fact it is illegal to have antibiotics for fish without a vets certificate over here,no walking into petsmart and picking up what you need from the shelf although we can buy chloramphenicol drops over here which are banned in certain states there.
I'm not sure how this got into the discussion but again, I have the same problem in Canada with a few antibiotics available but the critical ones. I'm unable to find a vet that will even consider prescribing for seahorse meds.
i will try and find the research into the nutricional values of bb at the various stages of its life.
I already have that information. It is available in multiple documents in scientific studies, some of which are available to the general public such as in the link I gave in post #18.
again rotifers are expensive over here and not always available
Expensive here also at $20 CDN for a 250ml bag so I used the bag to grow my own using spirulina powder blended in a blender for two minutes, and added to the rotifer culture 3 times daily in small amounts.
which is why i got advice from a reputable breeder and the nst but not everyone is able to produce papers and research on their work especially if they are also running a business.
but as i said i have seen his seahorses and i know where he supplies them to and i actually have 3 of them myself and i know of others who have them.
I have no doubt that you may have been told these things but just because someone else is doing it doesn't mean that you can't do it better.
In just two links, I've supplied you with proof that your way is deficient based on science, and ALL MAJOR breeders used this science in producing seahorses.
They don't produce documentation because they are not equipped to do the testing, nor do they have the funds to devote to that purpose.
may i ask how much you are expected to pay for say a barb as over here its $120 to $150 each and about the same for erectus etc the only cheaper ones are kudas that are $50/$80 or reidi$80/$90 or the giant which are what i have go for $180 each.i dont get a fraction of that when i sell to the shops in fact one shop offered me $16 each in credit notes so is it worth it really.
I paid $129CDN for most of my reidis, angustus and barbouri, $103CDN for my erectus, and about $74CDN including shipping for my comes.
I get $60 from the stores and they sell mine for $120 which is what I sell them for to the public, with the exception of runts which I have because I don't do any culling, and I let those go for a lot less.
By educating prospective hobbyists through the forums, we can create a demand for the true captive bred over the cheap imports even though we can't overcome it totally due to pricing.
Just think how much healthier you can make your seahorses if you accept science above the anecdotal advice you are given.
 
taken from the skeptical aquarist
...............
First of all, I'm not aware of any credentials the Skeptical Aquarist has that would be acceptable to the scientific comunity.
What you have quoted them having said though is already acknowledge fact.
I've never said that the nauplii aren't most nutritious right after hatching, in fact I've always stated so. However, that nutrition can be significantly improved upon.
Either I'm missing something or just not understanding why it appears to me that in your posting you ignore your OWN supplied evidence as the paragraph 2 explicitly states "The nutritional value of newly-hatched brine shrimp nauplii, once they have reached the feeding stage, and of the adults can be improved by keeping them in a brine enriched with Selcon
 
the one thing that is missing from this whole conversation is i was asked how i setup my nursery and that i what i replied about ,i didn't expect to be berated over the way i raise my young and was not in any way advocating that he follows my lead.there are other research papers but without applying for permission they cannot be copied or replicated and can only be accessed if you are a vet or a member of the scientific community and pay the subscription fees to access them.also if we import anything that costs over£18 we are subjected to pay an import fee plus an extra £8 p&P service charge so in canadian dollars that is $30 dollars then $50 postage so for something that is say$29 it will cost an extra $80 before paying for the goods.
but i actually recieve $50canadian dollars for each of my barbs from the fish shop.
but i go to the states every year and will endevour to look for the products you have mentioned whilst im there.
but one thing i will say my barbs are now showing a much better colouration to the so called captive bred and are bright yellow and orange i even have some pink ones as well.
 
wow,. good discussion lol

well the fry arent doing well, there are only a few that look fine, but their stomach is too small :S not sure if its me or ...
so some questions to improve :

1. arent copepods the best food to feed them on ? should I start a little copepod culture for next round ? as I understand they can feed on pods from birth till they are ready to go for frozen right ?


2. how much should the water inside the nursery move ? so I put them in jars, close to rays method, with a airline in thre, no air stone, should the flow be so much that it sends all the fry moving round the jar ? or should it be slower to let them swim ?

I cant really get the enrichment products, so I was thinking of just doing pods, and the already culture of rotifers I have and occasional BB.
 
Just remember, most people try many times before they get the hang of things, especially when starting right off the first time trying pelagic fry.
Pods are an excellent food.
However, you would be VERY hard pressed to produce enough to get a batch of fry through days let alone weeks, and buying enough is VERY expensive.
I can't comment on other methods of rearing fry, but in my case the turbulance doesn't allow the fry to go where they want, for the most part at least. I want them kept in motion until they are all hitching.
You CAN buy the enrichment products from seahorsesource.com but it takes a few weeks to get here due to the holdup at customs.
Postage was $2.27 to me here in London, for my 50g package of Dan's Feed with Beta Glucan so it's cheap enough to not mind the wait. Postage can't be much more for you in Toronto, if any.
As I already mentioned, unless you have deep pockets are are not going to raise many fry, you won't be using copepods as the primary feed.
Rotifers are a vessel to carry the enrichment as they have no real nutrient value without it.
Here is a link to an article written about rotifers so anyone can understand it. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/breeder.htm
 
Hippocampus Abdominalis
or
Pot Bellied/Big Bellied Seahorse
soon to be available in a British seahorse seller shop in the next few weeks.
Tim,BTW i can appreciate that you did an article on another forum about dwarves but the part about food enrichment is in the public domain and if you know where to research is easily available. but if you care to look back on a post i did on another forum 18 months ago it was part of that on the enrichment of food for fry.so sorry if i didn't cite you as the contributor but as i already had the information from the nst i didn't feel that i had to.as this was nothing to do with dwarves.i have had articles reproduced that i have produced and had published reprinted verbatim and havnt said a word about it.as i actually found it to be a form of flattery.

I answer you under your other username on UR. Am I somehow suppose to know that you two are the same person?

It I knew it was the other you, I wouldn't have a problem. You as Lucycat just join in May 2010. I don't know you as Lucycat. So yes I had a problem with it Lucycat. Case closed.

Let help Allmost now.
 
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