jhildebrand
New member
First I'd like to start off by saying this thread is not for everyone. Please keep any comments positive. If you disagree, make your feelings known by not posting. Bear with me if this interests you because it's not a short read.
That being said I'd like to take a look at starting a paid membership club and website that operates in conjunction with the forum(s) we currently use. Some of the ideas proposed here are not my own and some are. Many were borrowed from other clubs and some from past discussions in our club.
Before any concerns are brought up I will say that this will in no way effect anyone that wants to keep things how they currently are. You would just use the current forum as you always have. Dues will not be an issue as the cost benefits would outweigh the small annual fee required. A discount program I'm working on with LFS by itself will recoup the cost if you're spending any money at all on this hobby locally. I'd be willing to put forth the effort even if only ten people wanted to be involved.
I have gone through the 100+ pages of old threads for the FVRC to see why we have never taken the next step with this organization. There seems to be an unfounded fear that the club is going to get political and every shred of enjoyment will somehow be lost. Just by browsing any major forum's club section you can see that it does work in many areas of the country, from large metro areas to smaller cities. You'll also see that a lot of these clubs do things we could never do with our lack of structure and/or dues.
All of the major reef forums that host clubs should at minimum have our club listed with a sticky about who we are and a link to our website. This would make it extremely easy for people to find us and the central website can be a place that links us together no matter where you hang out on the web.
Advantages to member-only website:
q Access to club owned equipment free of charge "“ the PAR meter discussion was what got me going on this again. If the club owns it, all members can sign it out and use at will. No single person or people have to invest and everyone wins.
q Freedom from forum restrictions for selling "“ no minimum post counts, commercial accusations, etc"¦ Each member can have a profile with tank shot and list of whatever they have for sale at any time.
How annoying is this???
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1671397
or this?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1704976
have another"¦
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1602970
q Public identity for club "“ This is a big one. Right now we've got a loosely assembled group that hardly anyone knows about. If you Google "œaquarium club Green Bay" or "œreef club Green Bay" you get"¦"¦..well, nothing. We're not easy to find and if you're new, good luck. You're stuck with the LFS to guide and teach you and to randomly search for advice on the internet. It wouldn't be difficult for our club site to show up as #1 on a search.
Between the Fox Cities and Green Bay areas we're talking about half a million people. There's no way the fifty or so current members encompasses anywhere near all the reefers in that area.
What does this mean and why should you care? Well, let's think about why we do this.
Some of the main reasons:
q Meet people with the same interests
q Benefit from the experience and knowledge of others in the group
q Have a means to get deals on frags and equip as well as sell your own
q To overall enhance your experience with this very involved hobby
So what benefit are we deriving from basically keeping this club limited to the people that are lucky enough to find it or get introduced by a current member?
Typical unfortunate scenario:
Jim gets a tank setup from his wife for his birthday. He decides it'd be cool to start a saltwater tank and after seeing corals in the LFS this quickly escalates to wanting a reef. The guy at Petco that has never owned a reef tank in his life sells him starter materials and Jim goes home excited about his new hobby. Soon he's having problems with everything from sick fish to receding corals and can't seem to find the info he needs. Now the local stores are selling chemicals to him to "œcure" the problem that is inadequate equipment and know-how. Within six months the tank is on Craigslist or housing tetras, as the reef hobby is cost prohibitive and impossibly hard. The learning curve in this hobby is a sharp and painful one. If only their was another option"¦
This average guy would never find our club as it sits today. It's a shame, because many of us would have happily helped him avoid some of the pitfalls he experienced. Some would have had better equipment he could have purchased second hand. He also probably would have been interested in your frags for sale.
The LFS is in business to make money. They do their best to help get newbies started, but it would be unreasonable to expect them to spend hours on end helping everyone with every problem. No one can fault them for selling a fish that someone shouldn't have or selling a snake oil cure to someone that wants a problem fixed fast. If we choose as a club to have a relationship with our stores, they can refer their customers to our organization. In the long run this is good for everyone. Don't believe me? How many stores have come and gone? It's not profitable to have someone in and out of this hobby in less than a year. Say what you want about the LFS, but I know I would rather have them here than gone any day.
Several months ago about twenty people went to a member's house to discuss a frag swap and the best we could do is being part of one that is 2+ hours away. That's not local by any stretch of the imagination. It did however show that there is plenty of interest. The only thing keeping us back is our lack of being able to handle a small amount of money and having enough structure to appear organized.
Now I'm not talking about electing a full board and having lots of formal meetings, etc"¦ That doesn't sound like fun. After being involved in a community service organization for seven years and serving on their board for two, I know firsthand what a nightmare/popularity contest it can be. Having a club contact/membership chairman (president if you will) who has some basic responsibilities and a treasurer to handle dues is not such a big deal. I say this because if the officers have no control over what the club does, there is no power trip to be had. The officers just handle the wee bit of responsibility required to make sure dues are paid and website is run correctly. They'd also be the contact for the group when trips and outside engagements are set up. For any money to leave the club's account, both officers would need to sign the check. Anything the club does would be decided by the paying membership community, whether it be to hold a swap or buy a piece of shared equipment for the club. We could probably get by with as few as four meetings a year to discuss business and meeting minutes could be posted on the website for people who could not or did not want to attend.
What are the rules? Who decides the club's code of conduct??????????????
It's already been done and there's no reason to re-invent the wheel. There are many good club sites that have info we could tweak for our own needs.
The next question sure to be raised is "œOMG what about taxes!" and I can tell you that both the NWRS club up north and the local freshwater club GBAS both collect dues and are not listed as incorporated 501(c) nonprofits. We're talking about a relatively small amount of money in the club. The incorporation would certainly be an option in the future if the situation calls for it, but would not be necessary up front.
GBAS as listed online as an organization:
EIN 391642111
IRS approved on 199612
Last filed 200709
Contact
Address W10841 School RdFremont, WI 54940-9519
Filing month 09
Assets $0
Income $0
Revenue $0
Category Civic League
Activity Hobby club
Filing 990 - Not required to file Form 990 (income less than $25,000)
Filing No 990-PF return
Foundation All organizations except 501(c)(3)
Affiliation Independent
Exemption Unconditional Exemption
Organization Association
What I am proposing (after some constructive discussion) is to have a meeting somewhere with all interested parties to pool ideas and move this forward. Thoughts and opinions please"¦
That being said I'd like to take a look at starting a paid membership club and website that operates in conjunction with the forum(s) we currently use. Some of the ideas proposed here are not my own and some are. Many were borrowed from other clubs and some from past discussions in our club.
Before any concerns are brought up I will say that this will in no way effect anyone that wants to keep things how they currently are. You would just use the current forum as you always have. Dues will not be an issue as the cost benefits would outweigh the small annual fee required. A discount program I'm working on with LFS by itself will recoup the cost if you're spending any money at all on this hobby locally. I'd be willing to put forth the effort even if only ten people wanted to be involved.
I have gone through the 100+ pages of old threads for the FVRC to see why we have never taken the next step with this organization. There seems to be an unfounded fear that the club is going to get political and every shred of enjoyment will somehow be lost. Just by browsing any major forum's club section you can see that it does work in many areas of the country, from large metro areas to smaller cities. You'll also see that a lot of these clubs do things we could never do with our lack of structure and/or dues.
All of the major reef forums that host clubs should at minimum have our club listed with a sticky about who we are and a link to our website. This would make it extremely easy for people to find us and the central website can be a place that links us together no matter where you hang out on the web.
Advantages to member-only website:
q Access to club owned equipment free of charge "“ the PAR meter discussion was what got me going on this again. If the club owns it, all members can sign it out and use at will. No single person or people have to invest and everyone wins.
q Freedom from forum restrictions for selling "“ no minimum post counts, commercial accusations, etc"¦ Each member can have a profile with tank shot and list of whatever they have for sale at any time.
How annoying is this???
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1671397
or this?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1704976
have another"¦
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1602970
q Public identity for club "“ This is a big one. Right now we've got a loosely assembled group that hardly anyone knows about. If you Google "œaquarium club Green Bay" or "œreef club Green Bay" you get"¦"¦..well, nothing. We're not easy to find and if you're new, good luck. You're stuck with the LFS to guide and teach you and to randomly search for advice on the internet. It wouldn't be difficult for our club site to show up as #1 on a search.
Between the Fox Cities and Green Bay areas we're talking about half a million people. There's no way the fifty or so current members encompasses anywhere near all the reefers in that area.
What does this mean and why should you care? Well, let's think about why we do this.
Some of the main reasons:
q Meet people with the same interests
q Benefit from the experience and knowledge of others in the group
q Have a means to get deals on frags and equip as well as sell your own
q To overall enhance your experience with this very involved hobby
So what benefit are we deriving from basically keeping this club limited to the people that are lucky enough to find it or get introduced by a current member?
Typical unfortunate scenario:
Jim gets a tank setup from his wife for his birthday. He decides it'd be cool to start a saltwater tank and after seeing corals in the LFS this quickly escalates to wanting a reef. The guy at Petco that has never owned a reef tank in his life sells him starter materials and Jim goes home excited about his new hobby. Soon he's having problems with everything from sick fish to receding corals and can't seem to find the info he needs. Now the local stores are selling chemicals to him to "œcure" the problem that is inadequate equipment and know-how. Within six months the tank is on Craigslist or housing tetras, as the reef hobby is cost prohibitive and impossibly hard. The learning curve in this hobby is a sharp and painful one. If only their was another option"¦
This average guy would never find our club as it sits today. It's a shame, because many of us would have happily helped him avoid some of the pitfalls he experienced. Some would have had better equipment he could have purchased second hand. He also probably would have been interested in your frags for sale.
The LFS is in business to make money. They do their best to help get newbies started, but it would be unreasonable to expect them to spend hours on end helping everyone with every problem. No one can fault them for selling a fish that someone shouldn't have or selling a snake oil cure to someone that wants a problem fixed fast. If we choose as a club to have a relationship with our stores, they can refer their customers to our organization. In the long run this is good for everyone. Don't believe me? How many stores have come and gone? It's not profitable to have someone in and out of this hobby in less than a year. Say what you want about the LFS, but I know I would rather have them here than gone any day.
Several months ago about twenty people went to a member's house to discuss a frag swap and the best we could do is being part of one that is 2+ hours away. That's not local by any stretch of the imagination. It did however show that there is plenty of interest. The only thing keeping us back is our lack of being able to handle a small amount of money and having enough structure to appear organized.
Now I'm not talking about electing a full board and having lots of formal meetings, etc"¦ That doesn't sound like fun. After being involved in a community service organization for seven years and serving on their board for two, I know firsthand what a nightmare/popularity contest it can be. Having a club contact/membership chairman (president if you will) who has some basic responsibilities and a treasurer to handle dues is not such a big deal. I say this because if the officers have no control over what the club does, there is no power trip to be had. The officers just handle the wee bit of responsibility required to make sure dues are paid and website is run correctly. They'd also be the contact for the group when trips and outside engagements are set up. For any money to leave the club's account, both officers would need to sign the check. Anything the club does would be decided by the paying membership community, whether it be to hold a swap or buy a piece of shared equipment for the club. We could probably get by with as few as four meetings a year to discuss business and meeting minutes could be posted on the website for people who could not or did not want to attend.
What are the rules? Who decides the club's code of conduct??????????????
It's already been done and there's no reason to re-invent the wheel. There are many good club sites that have info we could tweak for our own needs.
The next question sure to be raised is "œOMG what about taxes!" and I can tell you that both the NWRS club up north and the local freshwater club GBAS both collect dues and are not listed as incorporated 501(c) nonprofits. We're talking about a relatively small amount of money in the club. The incorporation would certainly be an option in the future if the situation calls for it, but would not be necessary up front.
GBAS as listed online as an organization:
EIN 391642111
IRS approved on 199612
Last filed 200709
Contact
Address W10841 School RdFremont, WI 54940-9519
Filing month 09
Assets $0
Income $0
Revenue $0
Category Civic League
Activity Hobby club
Filing 990 - Not required to file Form 990 (income less than $25,000)
Filing No 990-PF return
Foundation All organizations except 501(c)(3)
Affiliation Independent
Exemption Unconditional Exemption
Organization Association
What I am proposing (after some constructive discussion) is to have a meeting somewhere with all interested parties to pool ideas and move this forward. Thoughts and opinions please"¦
