Hypo day 16 no improvement

[tapio]

I have a Powder Blue tang in hypo salinity now on day 16 and it is still full of spots. I had expected some improvement by now?

I am sure the salinity is 1008-1.009, has never during the 16 days gone higher. I use a Milwaukee digital refractometer calibrated with their solutions. pH is around 8.0. Fish is eating seaweed and flakes fine and looks otherwise OK.

Tank is 20 gal bare bottom with only a PVC pipe and a simple hang on filter with a sponge and some Seachem Matrix rock media for bio filtration. Cleaned bottom and filter a few times but not every day.

 

[Deinonych]

Some strains of crypto have been reported to be resistant to hyposalinity. Your fish may be infected with one of those strains. Since you only have the one fish in QT, why not try TTM? It's much easier to pull off than hypo, and treatment only lasts 12 days.

 

[tapio]

Yes, I have read about hypo resistant strains. This fish came direct from a store I trust and LA wholesaler. If resistant strains are so common then this method is useless. I have tried tank transfer with very limited success and copper with even less, so I tried this. Very disappointing. I have success with everything else in the hobby for years but not treating fish.

 

[andy01748]

I have a Powder Blue tang in hypo salinity now on day 16 and it is still full of spots. I had expected some improvement by now?

I am sure the salinity is 1008-1.009, has never during the 16 days gone higher. I use a Milwaukee digital refractometer calibrated with their solutions. pH is around 8.0. Fish is eating seaweed and flakes fine and looks otherwise OK.

Tank is 20 gal bare bottom with only a PVC pipe and a simple hang on filter with a sponge and some Seachem Matrix rock media for bio filtration. Cleaned bottom and filter a few times but not every day.

My experience only, but a year ago I had a severe ich outbreak that killed half my livestock. I went the hypo route, took detailed notes, and closely scrutinized each fish. I observed a single ich spot on one of my fish (a chromis) more than six weeks after I started treatment! I had invested in a digital refractometer, so I am confident I had held the salinity at recommended levels. I didn't start counting the 4 week period until I saw not a single 'salt crystal' on any fish, and my fish spend a total of 3 months under hypo conditions. I have not seen any symptoms since, so I consider the treatment effective, but it took much longer than I expected.

 

[snorvich]

It could take as long a 72 days for guaranteed results (which assumes valid hypo conditions). The only guaranteed "short term" fix is tank transfer.

 

[tapio]

It could take as long a 72 days for guaranteed results (which assumes valid hypo conditions). The only guaranteed "short term" fix is tank transfer.

So is it then quite normal not to see spots disappear even after +2 weeks. In the stickys, from what I recall, several people posted that they were seeing spots beginning to rapidly disappear by the end of the parasites 1st life cycle?

 

[snorvich]

Some characteristics of the different life cycle stages (e.g., size and time required for development) vary depending upon the strain of Cryptocaryon irritans, the salinity and temperature of the water, and the species of fish infected (Diggles and Lester). However the white spots are not really parts of the parasite life cycle, they are scars left from the previous life cycle stage. Hypo only affects one stage of the life cycle, the theront, and since theronts emerge within a highly variable release schedule, for guaranteed total eradication, the time in hypo must be 72 days. There are a couple of strains that are hyposaline resistant so I am not a proponent of hyposalinity as a treatment or prophylactic methodology.

 

[Deinonych]

IME, spots disappear completely by the 7-8 day mark if the fish is not being reinfected. This is from direct observation running a fish through TTM.

 

[snorvich]

IME, spots disappear completely by the 7-8 day mark if the fish is not being reinfected. This is from direct observation running a fish through TTM.

I agree. However, I do not trust the execution of hypo and if not done correctly, which is highly likely, reinfection will occur.

 

[tapio]

Is it known how common these hypo resistant strains are?

 

[snorvich]

Is it known how common these hypo resistant strains are?

No. Only that they do exist. My highly subjective opinion is that those strains are uncommon to rare.

 

[tapio]

So I will continue the course and hope for the best. Like I said earlier I have had poor results with Cupramine and tank transfer, so I decided to try this. At least the fish is eating unlike in copper for me.

 

[tapio]

It could take as long a 72 days for guaranteed results (which assumes valid hypo conditions). The only guaranteed "short term" fix is tank transfer.

Just to clarify, in one of the stickies you say keep in hypo 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. Do you recommend following that or the 72 days total in hypo?

 

[snorvich]

Just to clarify, in one of the stickies you say keep in hypo 4 weeks after the last spot was seen. Do you recommend following that or the 72 days total in hypo?

Do you want a 100% solution? Go with 72 days. Many people feel that twice the average life cycle is sufficient. Most of the time that would work but not all of the time.

 

[tapio]

OK I get that and will do 72 days, but do you mean from the start of hyposalinity or last appearance of spots and then 72 days. I assume you mean total time in hypo. Thanks for your patience.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

I have had success with hypo. I also treat Prazi and Furan 2 or Maracyn 2 during hypo. While those medications don't treat ich directly, it is my suspicion that addition thereof makes an already undesirable hypo condition for cryprocaryon more deadly than hypo alone.
That said, are you sure that you diagnosed correctly? It could be something else from Velvet and Lympho to just dirt from the bottom of the tank or pvc pipes if you have any.

 

[tapio]

I have had success with hypo. I also treat Prazi and Furan 2 or Maracyn 2 during hypo. While those medications don't treat ich directly, it is my suspicion that addition thereof makes an already undesirable hypo condition for cryprocaryon more deadly than hypo alone.
That said, are you sure that you diagnosed correctly? It could be something else from Velvet and Lympho to just dirt from the bottom of the tank or pvc pipes if you have any.

It has been stated here that during hypo don't do any other treatments so I have not even considered attempting but that is an interesting observation you have. Yes I have thought about if it could be something beside ich. IME, velvet should have killed this fish already and I know how to ID lympho so I really don't think its that. And I have seen too much ich so I am pretty sure this is it.

How long do you keep the other medications with hypo and during what stage in treatment.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

It has been stated here that during hypo don't do any other treatments so I have not even considered attempting but that is an interesting observation you have. Yes I have thought about if it could be something beside ich. IME, velvet should have killed this fish already and I know how to ID lympho so I really don't think its that. And I have seen too much ich so I am pretty sure this is it.

How long do you keep the other medications with hypo and during what stage in treatment.

I am pretty sure most people would advise against combining hypo with copper. However, anti bacterial medications and prazi have no ill effects. Actually I've noticed that my fish respond to prazi better in hypo than regular salinity. In particular they don't have to labor very hard just to breath. I'm guessing that has to do with them being better hydrated during hyposalinity.
I start hypo on day one at 1.010. I don't drop salinity slowly like most people do. I haven't lost fish due to this nor have I noticed negative effects to consider this practice to be cruel.
I start prazi on day 2 or 3 after making sure fish are eating. Then I give them a few days off and start Maracyn 2 now that it's back on Market. 2-3 days after anti bacterial medication I do another round of prazi. This has been the best QT protocol for me. Never failed.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Just to clarify the post above I wait 2-3 days after each treatment. So 5-7 days of prazi followed by 2-3 days off. Then Maracyn 2 treatment followed by 2-3 days off and so on. By the time you are done treating you are 4 weeks in to QT. At this point the fish are healthy, only needing a week or two of additional observation.

 

[tapio]

Just to clarify the post above I wait 2-3 days after each treatment. So 5-7 days of prazi followed by 2-3 days off. Then Maracyn 2 treatment followed by 2-3 days off and so on. By the time you are done treating you are 4 weeks in to QT. At this point the fish are healthy, only needing a week or two of additional observation.

That's quarantine. What do you do if there's a complete ich outbreak big time on the fish?