Hypo quarantine tank?

[davidwillis]

I've been through this before... and essentially doing exactly what you did, waterchange, prime, waterchange, prime, waterchange and so on and so on... you don't have a lot of surface area in your quarantine for bacteria to populate so you may never get your cycle completed before treatment is over. The beneficial bacteria don't reside in the water column.

I was afraid of that, but was hoping two bio-wheels (on the 300) and the carbon (1150 meters/gram) would provide enough. But now I am starting to wonder if it just is not enough. That or the low salinity just makes the bacteria grow slower....

 

[davidwillis]

Not sure on the Hiatt. Did the folks at Seachem say after the 24 - 48 hours the ammonia will release back in? I have read on the Kordon website regarding Amquel, that it changes the structure of the ammonia molecule, therefore making it non-toxic....it's still there buy not toxic. One interesting note, is that the API test kit will give false high readings, so I had to switch to Hagen. They say the Nessler style reagents will give false readings, however the API which does not use Nessler still gives false high readings (according to warning label on Amquel). Seachem I am sure is a different formulation, so I am unsure about the ammonia readings on your test kits.

I believe what Seachem is saying is that after dosing the Prime is still available to detoxify ammonia for 24-48 hours, then is inactive. NOT that it will unlock the ammonia (become toxic again) after that timeframe. In either case, if you dose, you should be able to see a difference VERY shortly after with your test kit. If you get to zero, then you may have some active Prime still in your system that can lock up ammonia for the next 24 hours or so. If you still have ammonia showing up, then you have no more Prime availalbe, it has been used up.

Your HOB filter should become active soon. A PolyFilter somewhere in your flow path should be very beneficial, and since your tank is only 10 gallons, may last a while before turning dark brown / black.

SV

Thanks

Here is what seachem said...

Carbon will not have any impact on Prime and will not remove it from the water. It remains active and will hold the bond with the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate for 24-48 hours. This gives the beneficial bacteria in your filter time to consume those components.

I take that as it will become harmful again after 24-48 hours...?? Anyway, until the bacteria kicks in I will have to do water changes at least ever other day, and use prime between changes..

Also Seachem said the api test kit (which I am using) will read total ammonia, including what is bound. So it can read high, and the fish still be safe. My only testing for free ammonia is the ammonia alert which they say takes a long time to go down after it is high.

My lfs is not that great, so I may have to put in an online order to get some new test kits, and a polyfilter.

 

[davidwillis]

well I thought the cycle worked after adding the right now bacteria, ammonia and nitrite lowered initially, but they are both on the climb again. I am afraid I just don't have enough surface area or the lower salinity is messing it up... In my 29 gal tank I had the water forced through the carbon, but with the hob filter it can flow past the carbon container. That may also be a problem, but you would think the two bio wheels would provide enough area to take care of a 10 gal.... I am going to my lfs today and see what I can find...

 

[davidwillis]

I just added a couple sponge filters in the hob, and added the "right now" again... we will see if it works now with a little more surface area....

 

[svejil]

I do believe the small surface area, and this being a 10 gal. tanks is the issue. Good move on the sponge filters....do believe this will help.

Hang in there.

SV

 

[davidwillis]

Thanks...

 

[davidwillis]

Well I am not sure what did it, but after adding the sponges, and adding the right now (I did a dose large enough for 30 gal), my ammonia is 0 ppm down from over 1 ppm last night. My nitrite is still at 0.75 ppm the same as it was last nigh. I added some prime this morning to take care of the nitrite, and hopefully it will come down soon as well.

 

[svejil]

Progress.....we'll take it.

 

[davidwillis]

Well I thought we were doing good. But when I tested this morning, ammonia is back up to 1.0 ppm, and Nitrite is 1.0 ppm. I put some more prime it, and if it is still going up by tonight I will do another water change.

I don't know what is going on. Does the bacteria not reproduce fast enough in the hyposalinity tank? After adding the bacteria the ammonia was all gone, now it is back....

 

[svejil]

There is some debate as to whether bacteria are "Freshwater / saltwater" specific. I believe some manufactures produce bacteria starter for each, while others produce bottled bacteria that work in both. Personally, since I have had the mis-fortune of battling Marine Ich, I have seen an established tank with huge bacteria colonies that were dropped down to 10ppt. The resident bacteria "stalled" for about a week, then took right back into action.

Based on this personal experience, I am lead to believe that bacteria can / will adapt to a wide range of salinity levels.

The timing as to when bottled bacteria are active, is extremely variable. In a small system, parameter swings are huge, and could be a contributing factor. Best bet for now is more WC.

SV

 

[davidwillis]

It is interesting, everytime I add the "right now" bacteria the ammonia drops, then in a day or so it starts climbing again. It is almost like the bacteria works, but then dies off...

I sent an e-mail the Hiatt, and they said it should work int the hyposalinity, but might take longer...

For now I will just keep doing water changes, and adding prime to keep the fish safe. Hopefully it will cycle before the time to raise the salinity back up...

 

[davidwillis]

This morning my ammonia was about 1.0 ppm, and my nitrite 2.0 ppm. I did a 70% water change, and added prime...

It looks like the ammonia eating bacteria is working a better than the nitrite eating bacteria....

 

[davidwillis]

duplicate post...

 

[davidwillis]

I was just cleaning off my glass in my display tank when I noticed some white spots on the glass... Looking closer it looks like flatworms. I have never seen any before, maybe the fish were eating them..

Is this something I should worry about, and maybe use flatworm exit to get rid of them while the fish are out?

 

[davidwillis]

here is to show the size of these.... sorry I didn't get this focused as good. Those two white spots above the penny are what I am looking at.

 

[Top Water]

You need a refractometer and I thought the number was .009 .

You also want to keep the water on the cool side. It helps the fish to breath better. Ich gets in its gills.

 

[davidwillis]

Thanks... I just noticed my first post was missing a zero... I am keeping it at 0.008 (from what I understand it can be 0.008 to 0.010) with the water temp about 74-76. I have not seen any ich spots on the fish for 1.5 weeks now, and the flame angel is looking really good. Even his HLLE is clearing up nicely.

 

[davidwillis]

Today ammonia is almost 0, but nitrite is almost 2.0....

 

[davidwillis]

I have been doing 50% water changes every other day, but nitrites are staying between 1.0 ppm to 5.0ppm. One damsel is showing popeye, and I am not sure if it is due to the damsels fighting or the high nitrite.

I separated all the damsels into nets for now, and am dosing a double dose of prime every 12 hours to make sure the nitrite stays bound (it says you can do up to 5x the dose with high nitrites). There is not test kit to test the free nitrite... I also have a couple air stones to help keep the water oxygenated.

 

[svejil]

David,

Are you sure on the Nitrite readings??? 1 - 5PPM??? NOT good at all.

I am not sure why your bacteria are not up to the task, although as we mentioned before you have a large bioload for a 10g that was set up sans any bacteria. Even so, I am somewhat surprised your nitrites have reach those level.

Have you tested after your 50% water change to see what your nitrites are? I would look into trying a different test kit just to make sure. Also at those levels I would suggest daily / large water changes, that are pH / salinity / temperature matched. At these numbers, every other day is not going to help. Fish do NOT tolerate nitrite at those levels well at all.

Also, did you get any PolyFilters? If you did, I would check them to see if they are brown. If they are dark brown, or black, put a fresh one in there. If you have one running, please report back what color they are. Purigen (by Seachem) may even be a good option right about now. Also, your Popeye is likely a result of both nitrite / and aggression. We need to eliminate the one we can (nitrite).

SV