Hypo tank water parms

[Mish]

Hey all, I know that the ideal situation is to have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 8.3 PH, but with a new hospital tank and hypo it's not so easy.

My question is what are the extreams of OK?

I guess I want to know when it's a emergency. I am currently doing 50% water changes every day. And testing 2-3 times a day, so i'm not going to let it go, but there are going to be times when I can't change the water.

 

[billsreef]

Ammonia is best at 0, nitrite and nitrate are not really a concern. The use of something like Amquell will help with detoxing the ammonia.

 

[Mish]

Are you sure about the Nitrite and Nitrate? I thought these could be just as toxic.

Anyone else? Thoughts

 

[Rondelet]

I would say that ammonia and nitrite should be zero. Measurable levels of nitrite, while not as toxic as ammonia, will cause a form of brown blood disease, reducing oxygen carrying capacity. Also, keep in mind that toxicity of ammonia, and whether you are reading ionized or unionized ammonia, is linked to pH. The lower the pH the higher the portion of unionized ammonia - which is more toxic. As for nitrate, this is much less toxic than nitrite, but exposure to high levels, around 100 ppm or more, for long periods of time (months) produce a range of toxicity-related symptoms and is generally not good for your fish. I would strive for 0 ammonia and nitrite and less than 20 ppm nitrate for fish. Invertebrates, depending on the type/species, would struggle with nitrate levels this high.

 

[Mish]

Thanks, I'm driving myself nuts with water changes. I guess I need to keep at it though. This is good information. My nitrites are usually .5 or below, but if I skip a water change they double. Ammonia is reads .50, but I only have a total ammonia test with a seachem alert badge (still yellow) so I am nervous over this. I am keeping the PH 8.0, but I just heard that the PH tests are not accurate.

I don't know who's more stressed the fish, or me.

Thanks again!

 

[billsreef]

Interesting tidbit about nitrite and salt water. The chloride ion happens to block the nitrite from entering into the fishes bloodstream via the gills. Low levels of salt are often used in fresh tanks and by fresh water aquaculturists to treat brown blood disease

Mish,

With your water change regimen, even if you miss a day, use a little amquell (or it's equivelent) and you really won't have to worry so much

 

[reverendmaynard]

Rondolet - I don't know if that was a typo or if you are misinformed but... The level of toxic ammonia INCREASES with increased PH. The higher the PH, the more un-ionized ammonia there is in the ammonia tested for.

Here's a chart...link that can help you convert your ammonia readings to un-ionized ammonia.

For this reason, all care should be taken to never raise the ph of a tank that may contain ammonia. And, IMO, ANY positive ammonia reading is reason for concern and immediate action in SW.

Nitrite is much less toxic, with some tests showing thousands of ppm necessary to cause 50% mortality in some species. If it's not off your testing chart (most go to 10ppm) there's really no reason for concern.

 

[Mish]

Wow, more great info! Great chart, thanks reverendmaynard. I have heard that nitrite is less toxic in saltwater fish than freshwater, but with my hypo situation (1.009), I would consider this more on the freshwater side. Making me think that the nitrite is more toxic. I have been using Prime, but I don't consider this an alternative to a water change. If it was that easy, why do a water change at all? So much to learn, and I thought this was a relaxing hobby. : )

 

[reverendmaynard]

No problem Mish. You might be right about the nitrite being more toxic in hypo. I hadn't heard the reason behind it being less toxic (choride ions?), but if that's correct, it may be more toxic in hypo.

Regardless, the solution to pollution is dillution, so if you must run a qt or hospital tank that is not completely cycled, frequent large water changes should be done regardless of any chemicals added. If you do that, I don't see how your nitrite levels could rise to dangerous levels.

 

[Rondelet]

Reverendmaynard - Ooops! You are correct. This was a typo - I meant to say higher. I agree, ammonia ionizes as pH drops and is less toxic. Thanks for catching and correcting this.

Bill - thanks for the tidbit about nitrite. I hadn't considered this. While it goes against the conventional wisdom (and most 'book' recommendations for nitrite levels) - I could see how chloride binding may be a consideration for SW. However, I have found in the past that where my total ammonia was zero, but my nitrites (and nitrates) were elevated, my fish seem to do poorly in my quarantine system. Not the best system for evaluating what was going on as this could have been related to many other factors - including the different fish involved. When I got the water sorted out (mainly to reduce nitrite to 0), the system 'seemed' to function much better, or rather fish seemed to do better when put through it. I must say that much of my understanding of nitrogen cycling goes back to my FW days, so my impressions of what was going on were biased towards this understanding. Nonetheless, the comments about chloride binding are most interesting and I will read up on it as it piques my curiosity.

 

[reverendmaynard]

Here's a great article that you can show to people who's stated goal is to get their tank running so perfectly that they never have to do wcs and/or people who never do wcs because "everything tests fine."

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria

And this one:

Mything the Point: Part II

Particularly Myth #8