hyposalinity, cichlids, damsels and clowns

[Massengill]

I have read some interesting arcticles about hyposalinity used in the marine fish world as QT tanks prior to introduction to the DT. From what I have read it appears many marine fish are capable of living for extended periods of time in what appears to be brackish conditions. It is recomended that your newly acquired marine fish (let's say a clown or damsel) be introduced to your QT tank, then the salinity is gradually reduced from 1.025 to 1.009 over a period of 1 week. Then the specimen is kept in the QT tank at that specific gravity for a period of 2 more weeks. The last week you increase the salinity back up to 1.025, then introduce the specimen in to the DT. There have been accounts of people keeping prized Angels and Tangs in hyposalinity for up to a year . . . reportedly anyways, no proof that I can provide. I have also read that Mayan and Black-Belt Cichlids can live in full strength salt water, and that Convicts and Dempseys can tolerate brackish conditions. If hyposalinity can be used to QT a Damsel to rid of marine ich, why couldn't hyposalinity work to cure a Convict of fresh ich before being introduced into the DT? With all this said, is it possible for a Convict and lets say a 3 or 4 sripe damsel to inhabit a brackish aquarium together forever? I know there are brackish and fresh water Damsels, and that the Gregory Damsel can inhabit salt, brackish and fresh water. Has anyone ever had a Convict in a brackish tank (1.009), and has anyone ever had a Gregory Damsel, fresh or brackish Damsel as a pet, either in a Cichlid tank or in a species specific tank? Just wonderring, because Cichlids are fresh water cousins to Damsels, and Damsels are closely related to Clowns.

 

[Massengill]

25 people interested enough in the thread to take a look, but no replies?

 

[Homereef]

It is pretty common knowlage that a handful of aquarium salt usually fixes most problems with FW fish.

If you try to keep a FW fish in brackish water you need to keep your eye on the Alkalinity. This is the deciding factor if the fish is able to drink or if the fish will die of dehydration.

FW fish drink through their skin and have very dilute urine.
SW fish drink through their mouth and have very concentrated urine.

Too little ALK a saltwater fish will drown.
Too much ALK a freshwater fish will turn into a piece of salted fish jerky.

It is best that you try native fish to estuaries and not lake cichlids or say SW fish from the Redsea.

 

[billsreef]

Umm, where did you get those ideas? Alkalinity has nothing to do with a fishes ability to uptake or loose internal fluid. FW fish (or any fish for that matter) do not drink through their skin. They can gain or loose water via the gills, but not the skin. FW fish are geared to excrete excess water, while SW fish are geared to retain water. Some fish are adapted to make changes in they way the handle things and can go back and forth between fresh and salt, these would be your brackish fish.

As for solving FW fish problems with salt, yes a measured increased in salinity can be useful as treatment for some parasites, namely FW ich and flukes. Much the same as hyposalinty for SW fish. It is not a cure all for FW fish any more than hypo is a cure all for SW fish. The biggest reason for that old myth of a handful of salt as a cure all in FW has to due to the commonality of inadequate filtration and the salts effect on nitrites.

The idea of keeping marine fish in long term hypo is not good. While it's great for short term treatment of a few weeks or so, long term can cause problems in overall health. I would expect the same holds true for trying to keep FW fish in elevated salinity. Fish that can be normally found in brackish areas are another story.

 

[Homereef]

Let me find some material on the subject that I have read and it might shed some light.

But to paraphrase the ALK creates an osmatic barrier and creates a balanced equalibrium that doesn't harm the fish.

That sound plausable ?

We said the same thing but used different words.
So "umm" yeah.

I hope you will note that I said most not all, Bill.
It is pretty common knowlage that a handful of aquarium salt usually fixes most problems with FW fish.

There is no cure all to my knowlege.

HTH.

 

[JHemdal]

Homereef,

I side with Bill on this one. His statements reflect my understanding of the topic - even to the point of sodium chloride's ability to reduce the toxicity of nitrite - something many people miss.
As it turns out, we learned that higher calcium allows some freshwater fish to surivive higher salinity. Case in point; using sodium chloride to raise the salinity of a freshwater tank as a disease treatment is more problematic than using the same amount of synthetic sea salt.

Back to the original post. Old timers may recall a product by the name of "Magic Marine Mix" or some such - in the 1960's. It purported to allow you to mix marine and freshwater fish together. The examples they gave were damsels and black mollies (hehehehe). As I recall, it was a mixture of sea salt and sugar, and it was marketed again (or something similar) not too many years ago - and just as quickly faded from the scene again. Somebody wrote an article for FAMA called "Salty Cichlids" in which he related his (ill advised) experiments in adapting cichlids to higher and higher salinities until they stressed out and/or died (probably not good science). Tilapia cichlids are well known to thrive in hypersaline environments - something above 40 ppt as I recall.


Jay

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12463178#post12463178 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JHemdal
Old timers may recall a product by the name of "Magic Marine Mix" or some such - in the 1960's. It purported to allow you to mix marine and freshwater fish together.

I'd like to claim that I don't know of what you speak, but than I'd just be accused of going senile :lol: I seem to recall the sugar as part of that mix as well.

 

[herostar]

For what it's worth...

I've kept all three of my fish that went into my 20g in a 1.010 salinity QT for about 6 weeks each. No problems with ich, or any other problems with the fish for that matter.