I believe my 75 is crashing. Advice

[pewter_jean]

My 75 has been established for a little over two years. Over the past year I had have a LOT of problems with Red Slime and tried everything. Well after a year of fighting the Red Slime, I believe I might had killed my bio-load too. My live rock all stinks, All of my inverts have now disappeared. One by one, the last was the coralbanded shrimp. But I haven't seen him in days. GONE, not a trace. The fish are ok, NONE DIED YET. The few corals I have look alright also. But the sand and rock STINK like you know what. I did make it over to Beldts (I'm so prood of myself, You all don't have any ideal how scared I am to drive in St. Louis. White knuckle all the way. and my hands were numb for about 20 minutes after I got there) But back to the problem. Beldts believe that I probly lost my Bio load also. He told me to put some of that live sand in the tank. We are going the do a little water change. (I have a few pieces of live rock that I was curing for my 180, for when I get that up and running) So I will put a couple of piece that in the 75 to hopfully start another bio load to support the tank. But aren't I risking another full blown cycle. Wouldn't this kill the fish and corals that I have left. I know you all will want to know what my test are. I haven't done them yet. I was going to do them in a little while. I guess I just need some advice as to what I need to do. What order. Do I add that live sand. then do a water change. Will that water change take out the little bio I just put in there. I will tell you I know my PH is low, very low 7.9. and calceum is very high. Been adden "Seachem Reef Buffer" for the last few weeks. It is not helping. Today I plan in adding new live sand across the bottom of the tank. I will go down and pick up fresh and salt water for Midwest Marine. When I get home I will do a water change. and then I was going to change out all of the filters and add more "PhosGuard". If anyone has some advice please post, or call me and (618) 980-6768 and stop me before I do something stupid.

 

[capncapo]

Personally, I don't think adding live sand and even cured rock is going to fix your problem. It may mask it for a short while.

What are you using for a substrate?
Nitrate and ammonia count?

Adding uncured rock will definitely cause a cycle.

 

[Letmegrow]

It sounds like you salinity is low too. Do you have very many gallons per hour turning you tank over ?

 

[Shooter7]

Yeah, seems like a quick confirmation of whether or not you've lost your good bacteria would be to test for ammonia. If you've got an ammonia level then your bacteria isn't handling your fish load. I'd start out simple, like the test above, and rule things out step by step rather than getting to aggressive right from the start. I'll be on here from time to time tonight. If it comes down to it and you need any temporary dwelling for fish, I have a 29 QT that has been set up for some time now and is currently empty, so I could house some fish if need be. You go right by my place going to Midwest.

 

[pewter_jean]

Ok, knew you would want to know this info so did test. This is what I have.
75 gal tank
110lbs live rock
60 lbs live sand, figi aranganite???
Rena XP3, one basket has the stars for bio
emperer 400 (Use to be 2 but needed one to cycle the rock
for the new tank)
These test are the Aquarium Pharmaceutical brand
temp: 78.4
Nitrate 80 (There about)
Ammonia is 0 that is a ZERO
PH is 7.8
Nitrite is 0 that is also ZERO
These test are the Red Sea test
Calcium over 500 (It took 13ml to change to water color)
Phosphate between 0 and 0.1. The water was not yellow
like the test shows but is wasn't green enought to
0.1. Not even close to it. The water was almost
clear with a very slight light, light blue green tint. I
did all test twice to be sure of the results.

I know you are going to say where is the skimmer. The skimmer is also on the curing rock tank. WHY, I had that skimmer (Seaclone) on this tank for a year and a half. It would never pull anything. I was told by my LFS (Name not to be mentions) that if It isn't pulling anything then there is nothing to pull. So I guess my fish don't poop. I guess they have been constipated for 2plus years , (That is plobly what is wrong) Anyway when the skimmer broke a few weeks ago, I took it over to get it fixed. We put it on the Rock tank to see for sure it was ok. ( easier to get around the rock tank than my fish tank.) After a day test run the skimmer is working, It is working great pulling all kinds of junk up. First time in over a year. We moved the skimmer over to the fish tank, There it sat for 4 or 5 days NOTHING, put it back on the rock tank, skimmer is going crazy. I was told to just leave it there. If that skimmer hasn't worked on the fish tank for the past year. then there is no difference with it on there not doing anything.
No this has been slowly going on for about 8 months losing about one to two inverts a week.
To compencate for the skimmer not working and now not having one I had been doing a water change every week. About 10-18 gallons.

 

[Shooter7]

Just a quick comment on this as I'm passing by the puter, based on those tests if they're correct, you have not lost your bacteria. You would have ammo and nitrites if you had. Nitrates are very high and you probably need some good size water changes. As steve alluded to, probably would help that skimmer on the fish tank if you had some strong powerheads in there to stir up the poo they're putting out so the skimmer could get it. If it falls to the bottom and nothing keeps it moving throughout the tank, it's just going to stay on the bottom. Dying inverts don't help the situation.

 

[pewter_jean]

I have three power heads going, two in front half of tank. one along front glass rotating and one in the middle rotating the otherway. they are on timers so they switch back and forth between the two. and one on the back corner of the tank to get behind the rocks. Tried for no dead areas.

 

[capncapo]

The very high nitrate level can keep your pH low. I would do three or more water changes in a week and see if it stabilizes. If it doesn't I would suspect that the bacteria in your system are unable to keep up with the load.

Do you vacuum the gravel and squirt your rock with a baster to keep it clean?

 

[TWINPEAKS]

I have to agree with SHOOTER7 that your bacteria seems to be good or your tests would be through the roof,alsom if you need it i have a jebo 150 skimmer you can have it just needs a mj 1200 pump.I would do a 20 gallon water change and try to syphon out any dietrus that you could in the sand also maybe arerate the tank with a air pump.Don't forget if you change all of your canister filter components at once your removing that good bacteria that is present there,change one portion every few days so the bacteria can regrow.You also might try a different source for your ro/di water.

 

[Letmegrow]

It sounds like you have brakish or fresh water bacteria and trying to do a salt water tank. I did not see you post your salinity.

 

[Shooter7]

What's making you say that, Steve? Just curious and want to understand what direction you're going with this or what's clueing you in as to that being the issue?

 

[Letmegrow]

My reasoning is since the creatures are dying but the bacteria is fine.

I have seen customers with 1.009 on a refractometer with fish and inverts in the tank (not doing so well.) And the bacteria was fine with all params showing 0. As soon as you raise the salinity and significant ammount the bacteria die and begin the conversion to saltwater bacteria.

Sounds like she has a lower salinity bacteria base in there, and it's taking a toll on the creatures that need full strength sea water, but the current bacteria does not care since it's not full strength sea water bacteria.

 

[Bushong87]

bacteria can change just like that? if that is the cause, how long do you think it would be before they changed to full strength?

 

[Letmegrow]

Well usually two weeks from start to finish with no hurdles, road blocks, or set backs.

With an uncalibrated hydrometer, you could be lowering your salinity gradually over time - Killing fish and inverts but not killing the bacteria.

 

[pewter_jean]

Ok, I just got back from Midwest Marine, I went down to get my water for my water change. When I called him to make sure he would even have some water for me, he told me to bring some water down so he could test it. Now his test showed. PH 7.8, Nitrite 0, ammonia 0.5, and nitrate was only 5.0. I don't understand why his test were different. He also did the test twice, And it was the same brand of test. Mine says nitrate problem. His says ammonia problem. So which do I trust? Which should I treat for? He also tested for my salt level. High, 1.031. So I plan on just a fresh water change tonight. The only thing I can think of is salt water was acidently put into my fresh jug. And I've been topping off with salt water not realizing it. Could that be my trouble? If I change the salinity to quickly I could kill my fish. He also told my to put baking soda in for the PH. Is this ok. I feel bad second guessing these guys, they are suppose to be the pros, but I had one tell me to put a bag of live sand in my tank today. and I thought something wasn't quite right there and I was right, It would have thrown my into a full blown cycle, one my fish and corals might not be able to handle.

 

[Letmegrow]

If I remember correctly, she was the one who was topping her tank off with salted water.

That might have been someone else, but I'm pretty sure it was her.

 

[Letmegrow]

Just gradually bring down the salinity. Do not do anything else.
Do not adjust your pH, make sure your water is flowing briskly and take your temp up to 82F.

What I said about the bacteria being brakish could also be true for hypersalinity, which is the case. Usually hypersalinity causes a faster crash.

 

[pewter_jean]

So tonight I will just change out about 5 gal of water, using fresh water. Then repeat about every other day. When should I change out my carbon and other stuff, Or do I still want to keep it for what little bio is on it.?

 

[Bushong87]

i dont think i would do 5 gals, maybe start with one and recheck

 

[sirreal63]

Jean, I still have a nice hob skimmer...all you need it new airstones and you can use it as long as you want, comes with feed pump and a very nice Schego air pump, just add airstones. I promise you it will skim. I had this on my 75 all by itself for months and it did a good job of keeping it clean. All you need to do is say yes, you can borrow it. That easy.