I could use some advice...my tank is doing just OK.

[kelso1980]

My tank hasn't been thriving and I could use some advice. I have a 54G corner tank with a 30G sump. Mostly LPS and softies. I've been having a little trouble lately because most coral are not growing and some zoas and paly's are actually dying. I'm not sure if it's the lights or if something else is going on, but it's been like this for like 4-5 months.
Just tested my water:
temp 78
alk 9.8
Ca 460
Nitrates 0
pH 8.2
Copper 0

Simple system. Just a protein skimmer. I dont dose or run reactors, Just an 18G waterchange about every 3-4 weeks. I run T5's which have been up since about July. Would bulbs do it? or time schedule?
Blues on at 1pm
Whites on at 2pm
Whites off at 8pm
Blues off at 10pm

THings were growing like crazy in the beginning of the summer. it felt like every time I looked in there, I had a new growth somewhere. and then it came to a halt around the time I bought the lights so that's my suspicion...but I dont know how it would.
It very easily could be something else though. nothing has died except for some zoas and paly's which are still there, just dwindling in numbers.
GSP's aren't even growing! The only things that have shown signs of growth are surprisingly the one SPS I have which is a birdsnest, and my Todd's torch, which has gone from a nickel-sized head to a quarter size...still tiny.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
Courtney

 

[moatdaddy]

I was wondering if you could explain a little more about the paly and zoanthid's demise. Are they melting? Are they just staying closed? Have you relocated them to more or less light or change of flow? Do you have before and current pictures? What kind of water and salt are you using?

I have read in a number of forums that GSP have problems with pristine water. Im sure some people on here can chime in on them. Mine are spreading really well but i like fat fish and over feed. Also i dose with part a and part b, use instant ocean and have a calcium of 440. I have had zoanthids close to the light and they didnt spread. I then put the rock near the bottom and now there is already another 30 onto the 100 plus colony in a week. There are so many what ifs in this hobby and things that work for one system but not another. My guess is you have a zoanthid pest. If you go to the reef central main forums and look into the zoanthids threads you might find a culprit.

 

[kelso1980]

They're not really melting away. they're all nice and open...then one day I'll notice one closed and over the next few days it gets smaller and smaller and then disappears. They do that one at a time and I loose about one every two weeks. I have tried moving them around and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Right now they're on the sand as far away from the light as possible.
Im not sure of what salt I'm using but I got it from ABC pet city so I'm not too worried about that.
Think my lights are too close to the tank? It's a TEK t5 fixture with 4 bulbs. About 6-7 inches from the water surface.
I'll work on some pictures. Lights went off for the night already.

 

[moatdaddy]

I really dont think its your lights. At some point tonight take a flash light to the zoanthids and see if you can see something bothering them and look for any strange critters. Also you could use some of your RO/DI water and do a freshwater dip. If stuff falls off you should be able to id the culprit.

Do you have a refractometer or hydrometer? Salinity level is?

What kind of fish do you have? Noticed any problems with them?

Is you water flow really high/med/low? Whats in the sump?

Have you tested with a second thermostat? I have the exterior one and it reads 2-4 degrees lower than an in tank.

Is anything else in the tank dieing?

Hope we can figure this out. I know how frustrating it can get. Also there are people with more knowledge who can use as much information as you can give to help you out. Thanks

 

[kelso1980]

Salinity is an issue because things seem to look better when my refractometer reads 1.029 so maybe it's off. I'm going to bring my water in to get it checked tomorrow, but I wanted to trouble shoot here first.
I only have a PJ cardinal and yellow goby. Haven't noticed them picking on anything.
Water flow is Med - high but mostly just at the torches.
Sump has about 15lb LR, heater, power head and Protein Skimmer
I have 4 little thermometers in there between the tank and sump and they all read between 75-80. The newest one reads 78. the tank temperature fluctuated a little in the summer but never got over 82.
I'll spy on the tank tonight a few times to see if I can catch anything.
NOthing else is dying in there, just not growing. I have a bunch of euphyllia, a rock full of rics, and even a challice and open brain that are not dying (not growing either)
One issue that I know I have is that I dont use RO/DI. I just use tap...but I've always used it and haven't had any problems. That'll be my next big ticket item, but cant swing it yet.
I dont have a carbon reactor, but should I throw some bags of carbon in there? maybe there is some toxin in there that has accumulated?

 

[32mm32]

I would also check at night for pests to make sure nothing is munching them. i had something similar happen to me several years back and found i had a pest.

 

[moatdaddy]

switch to ro/di from tap. walmart sells it with the green lid. i was using tap not by choice because i was in a wheelchair for a couple months and had other people lazily take care of my tank. you will see a huge difference in your water quality. your alk will come down and im guessing you have phospates. i know all this through experience. ebay also sells some less expensive ro/di units. out of curiosity why do you keep you salinity at that level.

It sounds like your spot on for a great growth expansion once you switch and try to remove all phospate. you should be able to do all this with less than 80 bucks. there are some cheap phospate reducers out there also. best of luck.

 

[albano]

Salinity is an issue because things seem to look better when my refractometer reads 1.029 so maybe it's off.

your refractometer is off???? are you sure that you're not talking about a hydrometer?

One issue that I know I have is that I dont use RO/DI. I just use tap...but I've always used it and haven't had any problems.

Could be a problem, that is getting WORSE every time you add water!

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

rule out the lights

rule out the lights

x2 what albano posted.

if TRS uses tap for water changes there's one reason it works for them: their water changes are HUGE (percentage wise). If you use tap for smaller percentage water changes the TDS are going to eventually accumulate.

is this aquarium fed any type of food?

JMO: if your stony corals (such as birdsnest and t's torch) are growing and softies/GSP's aren't growing it's a desirable situation. If you "skuzz" up your water stony corals' growth will slow down and softies can overtake the aquarium. Zoanthids can be fed in order to get them to grow (faster).

 

[kelso1980]

Any recommendations on an RO/DI that I should get? Size? for not toooo much $?
I do feed the tank every 4-5 days with a frozen coral mix

And no, it's a refractometer. I dont think it's accurate

 

[dreaminmel]

I have calibration fluid. Not sure where in Rochester you are but feel free to pm me and I'd be willing to come over or meet up to calibrate it for you. It's good to have it on hand as I recalibrate mine every couple months.

 

[tmz]

A few thoughts:

Zonthids can be irritated by some pest that keep them closed such as asterina stars, small feather dusters, etc; eaten by others such as sundial snails,nudibranchi, zoa pox . A dip in Revive or a freshwater dip may help by knocking off whatever may bothering them.

The term zoanthid is imprecise as it refers to the family zoanthidae which includes several genera including those we most often keep zoanthus,protopaytoa and palythoa.
Zoanthus show no feeding response. They are high reef animals often overtaking plating montipora skeletons high on the reef where nutrients are sparse ( PO4 .005ppm and nitrate around .2ppm). Mine do very well in high light and flow in a low nutrient system.

GSP (pacyclavularia) tolerate a wide range of light and flow ,ime.

Palythoa and protopalythoa come from a variety of locations which are generally turbid waters,. They do show a feeding response and some don't like high light and flow.

I'd also check PO4 and verify the sg.

Tap water may be ok but may not depending on what's in it. I'd worry most about free copper or other metals form the plumbing. A hobby test kit reading of 0 offers no comfort since free copper in minute amounts(as low as 10 parts per billion ) well below the detection range of hobby kits is harmful to some marine organisms. This is from a post of mine on the chemistry forum which may be of interest regarding copper:



Copper comes in different flavors. There are at least 7 species in seawater, Cu CO3, Cu++, Cu SO4, Cu(OH)+ and more. It is contributed to a reef tank primarily by salt mixes and foods and most tanks are above the nsw typical concentration of about .25ppb,parts per billion. Testing by species or even for total unbound copper is difficult.

The good news is that it has been established that over 99.7% of free copper in sea water is bound / chelated by fulvic and humic organic substances which surround it and adsorb to it's positive charge. Bound copper is much less toxic if at all since the larger molecules are not readily taken up by organisms and the humic and fluvic substances adsorbing it don't breakdown readily. The bound copper may be exportable by gac (granulated activated carbon ), skimming ,etc ; the free copper is not.

The bad news is that copper medications including "time release" versions rely on free unbound copper to kill ectoparasites such as ich. They require ranges of around .15 to .25ppm, parts per million , of unbound copper for lethality to the targeted organisms. This is about 1000x nsw levels . Hobby test kits read in the range of .05 to .25 parts pr million. Lethality for urchin larvae has been seen with concentrations of free copper as low as 10 ppb far outside the detectable range of test kits.

Some of the free copper from dosing sticks to the calcium carbonate rock surfaces and leaches back later, perhaps due to localized ph drops. Overtime it will likely be bound by organic substances in the tank but in the interim it is lethal at levels far below the detection range of hobby grade test kits.

These articles may be of interest:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-0...ture/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php

 

[kelso1980]

Wow thank you! looks like I have some reading to do!
I talked to a guy at TRS and he gave me some suggestions:
PO4 and nitrates were 0
First, I'm going to get an RO/DI unit. Anyone selling one around here?
second, I am going to start dosing with 2 part. I thought my water changes were keeping up with the ca and kH but he says it's not. So I'm going to have to start testing and dosing on a daily basis until i figure out a dosing schedule.
Third, My salinity IS too high. It is at 1.027, so I am lowering that as we speak
Fourth, I'm going to run some carbon, just put it in a bag and under the protein skimmer output flow. If I do have copper in my system, will the carbon remove it?

How does this plan sound?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

IMO it sounds like a good plan.

Despite the problems you posted it sounds as though your aquarium is doing very well.....

certainly not the usual problematic algae post we hear from those new to the hobby. It sounds as though you're doing well over there.

 

[daveml]

I would check out filter guys for an RO unit. Good service, quality products and a good price. Check out bulk reef supply for your alk. And calcium dosing.

 

[tmz]

Bulk Reef Supply also has ro/di units amd supplies.

1.027 sg is ok. The standard average for natural seawater is 1.0264. Some areas such as the REd Sea are above 1.029.
F
FWIW, I shoot for 1.026 + or - 1.

You can run some polyfilter to remove metals. Seachem cuprisorb is also very good at it but you'll nerd to run it for weeks if not months to insure you pick the metals off as they leach.

 

[kelso1980]

RO/DI has been ORDERED! I've been keeping alk and ca constant and have been observing for critters on paly's to find none.
1.025 sg
running carbon.
Things are looking good so far!

 

[tmz]

Good luck.