I don't know what this is

[acabgd]

Been battling this for months. Sometimes it looks like dinos, sometimes like some kind of powdery, stringy algae. Sometimes it's green, other times it's more brown. It's got bubbles, but not on such long strings like typical dinos.

My system was always low on nutrients, NO3 at 0 and PO4 at 0.03 (Hanna). RO/DI with new filters (and a new membrane), Ca 470, Mg 1370, kH 7, SG 1.026. Nac7 skimmer, BB, around 55g with very high flow.

I tried everything and I just can't get rid of this stuff, not even with daily water changes, manual removal or blackouts.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Very strange looking stuff. Could it maybe be a fungus or bacteria of some sort?

I don't think it has anything to do with your issue but your dKH is kinda low.

 

[acabgd]

I don't think it has anything to do with your issue but your dKH is kinda low.

I know, thanks. I was trying to get it high in order to change something (slowly), now I'm going down (slowly again) to try to help eradicate this stuff, but nothing is working! :headwallblue:

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Why not give Chemiclean a shot, the stuff that's made to get rid of Cyano. Cyano is a bacteria and I'm really thinking you have something similar. Hey its worth a shot anyway.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

I'm not sure what that is either; it's possibly a mixture of nuisances. The last 2-3 pics look a whole lot like cyano over dinos, but the first ones could be just cyano or some kind of actual microalgae with other crud growing on it. Is anything eating it? Are your snails ok? Do you have access to a microscope?

I can post endless tests for cyano vs dinos if you like, but without a 'scope we're just guessing, and having both is actually fairly common. In general dropping phosphate helps, do you run GFO? If it gets noticeably worse after water changes you should hold off on those, too.

If you want to treat it like dinos, there is a very long thread in the Reef Chemistry forum on treatments.
Ivy

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

Why not give Chemiclean a shot, the stuff that's made to get rid of Cyano. Cyano is a bacteria and I'm really thinking you have something similar. Hey its worth a shot anyway.

It's often a good diagnostic, but I know of one person (Lucidog) who tried chemiclean to see whether he had dinos or cyano. Turned out to be Calothrix, a cyano he later had identified by microscope, and the chemiclean did nothing.

If you do try chemiclean please make sure you crank the aeration up to the absolute max, monitor very closely, run tons of carbon afterwards and be prepared to get your fish out of there.

hth
ivy

 

[slief]

Man.. I hate hearing suggestions for Chemiclean. It's an antibiotic that will kill good bacteria with the bad and killing your dentrifying bacteria is NEVER a good thing! Chemiclean is nothing more than a bandaid for a bigger problem anyway and doesn't solve the problem when it comes to cyano nor would I ever consider it a good diagnostic. As for cyano, chemiclean just gets rid of it temporarily. That doesn't look much like cyano to me nor does it look bacterial.

It's hard to tell from the photos and looks like you may have a few different types of algae growing there. In some of them, it looks like I can see fronds. Does it pull off the rocks easily? If it doesn't, some of it looks like it could be bryopsis.

Are you using RODI water for your top off and mixing water? Do you make it yourself or are you buying it from an LFS? How long has this tank been up and running?

 

[acabgd]

Thanks guys for all the replies. Some of it that is on rocks and blows away with a turkey baster, some (like what is on my blasto and zoas) doesn't pull off easily at all.

My RODI creeped up a bit up to 12 tds but that was never a problem before, actually that's the point (12-15 tds) where I used to change the filters. The tank is over 3 years old. This stuff started appearing this summer, slowly at first, but within the last month or two started growing in catastrophic proportions. Already lost several SPS due to this plague, it suffocates corals, gets in pumps and I almost got a flood when a large patch blocked my overflow.

Strange thing is that my montis seem pretty unaffected, apart from a few strings that get attached by the flow here and there, but they're happy and growing and almost 100% algae (or whatever it is) free.

I am very reluctant to use Chemiclean and I also have a problem for H202 as I have a peppermint shrimp. I know this doesn't really help.

Tank was pretty much low nutrient, then this. For the last two weeks I have started skimming much wetter which seems to help, water changes seem to somewhat improve situation but maybe it's just the siphoning. Anyway, WCs don't make it worse, nor do I see a large increase of whatever this is after a WC.

Thank is over 3 years old, well established, but something must have changed lately.

The only thing I know is a bit problematic is it's running hotter than most tanks, usually around 79-80F. I've tried lowering the temperature within the last week, now running in the 77-78F range. Reef Crystals used for the last two years, ATI 6x39W.

I don't have access to a microscope, but I'm starting to think about getting one, at least hobby-grade, as this thing seems to be such a mystery.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Man.. I hate hearing suggestions for Chemiclean. It's an antibiotic that will kill good bacteria with the bad and killing your dentrifying bacteria is NEVER a good thing! Chemiclean is nothing more than a bandaid for a bigger problem anyway and doesn't solve the problem when it comes to cyano nor would I ever consider it a good diagnostic. As for cyano, chemiclean just gets rid of it temporarily. That doesn't look much like cyano to me nor does it look bacterial.

It's hard to tell from the photos and looks like you may have a few different types of algae growing there. In some of them, it looks like I can see fronds. Does it pull off the rocks easily? If it doesn't, some of it looks like it could be bryopsis.

Are you using RODI water for your top off and mixing water? Do you make it yourself or are you buying it from an LFS? How long has this tank been up and running?

I hate suggesting it and I agree with you, but as bad as that tank is the loss of corals could be huge. I've only used Chemiclean once and it was successful and I've also just let cyano run it's course, I would rather the later. But knowing it's Cyano is one thing, what is this stuff, and what do you do to combat an unknown?

 

[acabgd]

No one else with a suggestion on what this might be?

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Call your state Wildlife and Fisheries and see if you can bring a sample of it to let their biologist tell you what it is. Hey it is worth a phone call.

 

[slief]

I'm pretty sure some of it is bryopsis. Particularly the stuff that doesn't easily pull away. As I said, I think I see fronds in some of the pictures which is typically a telltale sign of bryopsis. The other stuff looks like it could be diatom but again, its hard to tell.

Without a doubt, part of your issue is your RODI. I would NEVER let my TDS get that high. As soon as it hit's 1 TDS, it's time to change the DI cartridges. Period. 12 TDS is higher than the RO stage of your RODI should be. Heck, mine is 6TDS out before the DI cartridges which is pretty typical. At 12 TDS, you have no idea what you are allowing into to water and while you think it's been fine doing it that way for the last couple years, it isn't. That's pretty bad water by my standards. Stuff from your water builds up in the tank. That stuff can be chlorine, chloramines, metals, phosphates and god knows what else. All of which is not conducive to good water quality and will promote nuisance algae growth. Bottom line, whatever makes up that 12TDS is not good in your tank.

FWIW, fixing your water issue and maintaining your RODI properly will help immensely in the long run. If it's bryopsis which I suspect some of it to be, you may need to get yourself some Kent Tech M and raise your MG to 2000 over the course of a few days and leave it there until the bryopsis starts to die off. Some water changes with quality water will help beat diatom along with increased flow in the effected areas in conjunction with manual removal via siphoning. That said, if you are using a Hanna 713 Phosphate tester and not the Hanna 736 ULR phosphorus tester, then your Phosphate is likely closer to .10.. The 713 is not very accurate in our testing range and isn't their marine tester where as the ULR 736 is.

 

[Quiet_Ivy]

How old are your lights? Aging bulbs can cause cyano explosions. I'm sure your nitrate/phosphate numbers are low because of the algae. Have you tried dosing bacteria? Running more GFO?

Your local high school/college will probably let you use a microscope. If you hold your phone/ipod up to the eyepiece you can take incredibly blurry pics that will be enough to help us narrow it down.

hth
ivy

 

[acabgd]

How old are your lights? Aging bulbs can cause cyano explosions. I'm sure your nitrate/phosphate numbers are low because of the algae. Have you tried dosing bacteria? Running more GFO?

Your local high school/college will probably let you use a microscope. If you hold your phone/ipod up to the eyepiece you can take incredibly blurry pics that will be enough to help us narrow it down.

hth
ivy

Lights are 10 months old, I usually switch them after a year. Already ordered new ones, but I doubt that's really the reason as never had a problem (4xB+, 1xC+, 1xActinic).

I haven't tried dosing bacteria, but I think that's a very good proposal and that's probably what I'm going to do next. I actually put a bag of Cuprisorb in a high-flow area of the sump last Thursday, as I've read it might help with "mysterious" algae/dino/bacteria blooms. It's more anecdotal than proven, but it doesn't hurt. I'm against aggressive, chemical methods. I will give Cuprisorb some chance before doing anything else, so that in the end if something works I know what it was.

You mean to take the photo up close, even if blurry? I have a prosumer camera with macro lens so I can take pretty good macro photos, if that's of any help?

Thanks to all who chimed in.

 

[acabgd]

Your local high school/college will probably let you use a microscope. If you hold your phone/ipod up to the eyepiece you can take incredibly blurry pics that will be enough to help us narrow it down.

Oh, okay I got now that you've meant to take a photo through the microscope eyepiece.

I'll try to organise something, I really need to know what I'm fighting against.

 

[Bent]

It looks like bryopsis to me with cyano growing on it.

Before I did anything drastic, I would douse the lights for about 3 days,and start dosing some tech M. Neither of those two options will really be as harmful as dosing chemiclean or something.

 

[acabgd]

It seems dinos (or whatever it was on top of algae - cyano, diatoms...) has dissappeared with agressive wet skimming, raising of kH (I was at 7, now close to 9) and possibly Cuprisorb as well.

However, this stuff remains. This is the best closeup photo I could get with my phone, I'll get out my camera with the macro lens tomorrow for a better photo.

Does this still look like Bryopsis?

 

[Bent]

Yeah man looks like it to me. I'd try some tech M and see what happens.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

No it's not Bryopsis, they look like fern plants. I still think that is some kind of bacteria or fungus.

 

[slief]

No it's not Bryopsis, they look like fern plants. I still think that is some kind of bacteria or fungus.

There are many kinds of bryopsis. Not just the stuff that looks like ferns. Some of the first pictures appear to show fronds in the algae which is indicative of bryopsis. And definitely not bacterial or fungus for the vast majority of it. It's an algae of some sort and possibly a couple kinds but some of it looks like bryopsis to me but it could also be some sort of hair algae. It's really hard to tell though. If it were me, I would incease the Mg to 2000 with Kent Tech-M and hold it there for at least a week and see what that does. If it doesn't work, I would add a rabbit fish and or a sea hare and see if those critters can knock it back.

Cuprisorb will do nothing for this in my opinion and is a complete waste of time.