I DOSED nitrate, and all can say is WOW!

[Santoki]

I've been trying to track down some type of deficiency for a while now. I think Marklu, you may be on to something.
I've been running bb and have experienced the same thing you have for the most part of a year now. Especially the "easy" stonies like Green Slimer, Monti Caps, Monti Digis, show little to now growth. Other acros seem to do fine however. Water parameters are always close if not spot on with NSW levels. One thing I never looked at was nitrates.
I noticed that those corals always looked better for a few days immediately following a large water change. I came to the conclusion that I was introducing something which I was not testing for. I never thought of NO3 as being that variable, since my RO/DI outputs 0 TDS.

The problem with feeding more is that food input does not usually contribute NO3 but does introduce large amounts of PO4. Specific bacterial processes are needed to turn that food eventually to NO3. If for whatever reason, that is not functioning, or these nutrients don't sit around long enough to turn into NO3 (ie: extremely powerful skimmer), a NO3 deficiency may occur.

I will be guinea pig #2.
will keep you guys posted.

 

[Marklu]

Excellent!

 

[Benighted]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15232962#post15232962 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rodrigo_BG
good to know that, keep posting the results with NaNO3 dosing. I'm really interested about soft and lps responses.

Will keep you posted on this, what I was able to see just in a day or two after I started dosing nitrate was that the softies started to "firm up" and be a bit more meaty instead of gelatinous in their consistency. They also showed some improvement in expansion of their polyps. The effect was most pronounced on the mushrooms, especially my green Rhodactis sp. which really firmed up and took on a lot rounder shape than before..

In my LPS it's still to early to tell but my feeling is that some of them have increased some in PE and my green Fungia has started to get back its nice brown tentacles (they had become really transparent in the last 6 months), but I will not state this as a fact yet as it is not marked enough yet.

 

[Benighted]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15234224#post15234224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marklu
Great! keep us posted.

Btw, where did you get the NaNO3? Its usually hard to come by due its other more common use...explosives.

Here in Sweden it is actually a lot easier to come by NaNO3 than KNO3, it is in every grocery store in the spices department (sold as salpeter(spelled a bit different than in the US)), I actually wanted KNO3 but this is harder to come by as it is not used as often in cooking anymore.

I made a mix that contains 0.05grams nitrate per ml of the supplement. This mix will raise the nitrate 0.5ppm per mL and 100L of tank water, so it is easy to keep track of the nitrate consumption of the tank.

I have not reached the consumption of my in my supplementation yet as the nitrate is still unmeasurable the next time I supplement. Currently I add 1ppm nitrate per day in the tank will probably bump it up to 1.5ppm NO3/day tomorrow morning.

 

[reefer334]

Marklu
What did your SPS colors look like before dosing?
I am having troubles with all 3 of my SPS tanks, all of my tests are perfect but most of my SPS are brown!
I had good color a few months ago but I just cannot seem to figure out what happened or is happening and it is very frustrating!

I am also thinking nutrients, but I just do not have faith in our hobbiest grade test kits anymore.

 

[Marklu]

reefer334, I have never had a brown sps. They all became pale, loosing their vibrant colors after a few weeks in my tank. Brown to me usually means high nutrients, but i've heard it can be other things as well. What are your levels at?

 

[Marklu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15237149#post15237149 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Benighted
Here in Sweden it is actually a lot easier to come by NaNO3 than KNO3, it is in every grocery store in the spices department (sold as salpeter(spelled a bit different than in the US)), I actually wanted KNO3 but this is harder to come by as it is not used as often in cooking anymore.

I made a mix that contains 0.05grams nitrate per ml of the supplement. This mix will raise the nitrate 0.5ppm per mL and 100L of tank water, so it is easy to keep track of the nitrate consumption of the tank.

I have not reached the consumption of my in my supplementation yet as the nitrate is still unmeasurable the next time I supplement. Currently I add 1ppm nitrate per day in the tank will probably bump it up to 1.5ppm NO3/day tomorrow morning.

I might try to find some of that. It seems easier to dose and it would be great to know exactly. Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[catman78]

Nitrates around 20 ppm !!

Nitrates around 20 ppm !!

PO4 is quite low.

I get growth and color. Have to clean glass more than I'd like to..

 

[Rodrigo_BG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15236960#post15236960 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Benighted
Will keep you posted on this, what I was able to see just in a day or two after I started dosing nitrate was that the softies started to "firm up" and be a bit more meaty instead of gelatinous in their consistency. They also showed some improvement in expansion of their polyps. The effect was most pronounced on the mushrooms, especially my green Rhodactis sp. which really firmed up and took on a lot rounder shape than before..

In my LPS it's still to early to tell but my feeling is that some of them have increased some in PE and my green Fungia has started to get back its nice brown tentacles (they had become really transparent in the last 6 months), but I will not state this as a fact yet as it is not marked enough yet.

:eek1: man you have exactly the same issues that I have here. But this thread bring me some hope with my softs.

 

[elijaher]

tagged alone

 

[jefathome]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15222731#post15222731 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
I can totally believe this. I used to have a planted tank years ago, and they have a method of dosing nitrates (KNO3 I think) to make the plants grow and out-compete the algae for the macro-nutrients.

it works like a charm! i had plants growing like crazy. only trick is you need to do consistent water changes to keep the micro-nutrient levels down.

I never had the guts to do it in a reef though.....as big water changes could trigger a mini-cycle.

But zero nitrates (or nitrogen) can probably explain why I have poor growth, colors, and hardly any chaeto growth.

Not sure if I agree with your mini cycle theory. The vast majority of the nitro-cycle bacteria are on your rocks and sand, not in your water.

 

[sminker]

Glad i came across this thread. My tank has never had any traceable nitrates since it was setup. Could explain my lack of coloration. Im still getting decent growth but the colors look a little washed out. I also have a few SPS that are slowly bleaching.

I still have some nitrate left over from my freshwater days. I may have to try this to see what happens.

 

[Marklu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15239850#post15239850 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sminker
Glad i came across this thread. My tank has never had any traceable nitrates since it was setup. Could explain my lack of coloration. Im still getting decent growth but the colors look a little washed out. I also have a few SPS that are slowly bleaching.

I still have some nitrate left over from my freshwater days. I may have to try this to see what happens.

Let us know if you do! :rollface:

 

[reefer334]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15237912#post15237912 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marklu
reefer334, I have never had a brown sps. They all became pale, loosing their vibrant colors after a few weeks in my tank. Brown to me usually means high nutrients, but i've heard it can be other things as well. What are your levels at?

Just measured and they are 15 ppm nitrates and .01 phosphates.

I have a feeling I have something else as a problem I just cannot place it.

 

[SOLANA34]

this is a crazy hobby we are in additives that make your corals grow and glow in the dark corals grow so fast you cant believe it.. Its all hype guys its just good ol fasion water changes and stability nothing else

 

[Marklu]

SOLANA34, This isn't really an "additive" per say, its more like a food. if the nitrogen in your system is being utilized by other processes before you corals can get their share then they may starve. But most people don't have this problem and dosing would have negative effects.

 

[Marklu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15240323#post15240323 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefer334
Just measured and they are 15 ppm nitrates and .01 phosphates.

I have a feeling I have something else as a problem I just cannot place it.

15 ppm for nitrates could do it for some sps. Without extreme lighting, slightly elevated nitrates could result in an influx of zooxanthellae. Try taking measures to bring them down a little. Another options would be to move them higher in the tank.

 

[JCR's Reef]

Subscribed to see what comes of this. I dont think I would be dosing/ adding it very often at all. Especially if it contains other stuff like metals and such. Would be nice to know what all is being added to your tank inbetween water changes to see what actually holds true. Im sure its a mixture of things. I know the problem I have, along with others I'm sure, is when something is wrong you make so many changes you dont even really know what fixed it. I'm a very impatient person. If your dosing or adding something to your system while still performing water changes, how do we know its not just the water changes doing it? And if your not doing WC and adding other stuff to fix the problem, then not doing water changes is the answer. Alot of people will notice things starting to be off/not looking good in their system, start doing water changes and dosing at the same time. Know what I'm saying here. Not trying to attack anybody in anyway. I'm real glad people are willing to take a leap of faith and try new things in this hobby all the time. There are so many ways to maintain a tank now compared to say 10yrs. ago.
Hell, I was having problems with coral/fish colors so I mixed up a batch of salt with tapwater, prime, and performed my waterchange the good ole fashion way vs. RODI. Just felt it was lacking something even with me dosing/ soaking foods. I had some intense colors in my tank after using tapwater for a WC. My fish looked great and took on some deeper/brighter colors. They didnt change colors, just a noticeable difference. Now whats in the tap water that would cause this? Tapwater has heavy metals, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite,Ca, god only knows what else from what people flush and put down drains. Or is it a mixture of everything? Who knows....but I do a waterchange with tapwater every once in a while. Can't do it all the time or you get algae blooms and such, just like when you dose too much AA, feed too much, etc. You know where Im getting to. Not saying it will work for everyone as everyones tank is different/ responds differently. Thats what makes this hobby fun, challenging, rewarding, and not so very boring. Let alone a money pit! :thumbsup:

 

[scribble]

What is the difference between potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate as far as coral are concerned? I also have the lightened SPS problem. I was going to try dosing a commercial product to see if it helps.

There are two nitrogen based (freshwater) aquarium products I know of. I feel safer dosing something that at least intended for an aquarium.

Brightwell Nitrogen: Sodium Nitrate
Seachem Nitrogen: Nitrogen 1.5% and Potassium Nitrate 2% (according to the label)

I have the Seachem Nitrogen I use in a planted freshwater tank and last night I tried adding some of it to a quart of tank water. I was going drop by drop in a quart of salt water but couldn’t get anything to show up on my Salifert nitrate test kit. I ended up adding about 4 teaspoons and still couldn’t get any nitrates to show in the test.

I’m not sure what’s going on and I don’t like dosing something I can’t test for. Either the chemicals in the Seachem Nitrogen don’t show up on a standard nitrate test kit as nitrate or the concentrations are so low that 4 teaspoons in a quart of water wasn’t enough. Or, some sort of reaction has to happen for it to breakdown into nitrate.

Any ideas what’s going on? Also if I was going to try one of the products I listed above which would be better for SPS.

 

[Benighted]

The difference between Sodium and Potassium Nitrates are just which cation the nitrate is combined with. If it is combined with a Sodium ion the net effect when the nitrate is absorbed by the coral/algae is a rise in the Sodium ion (second most common ion in seawater, after chloride) concentration in the tank. When you add Potassium Nitrate you get a rise in Potassium ions (6:th most common ion, i think) in the tank.

If you have a deficiency in Potassium it is (probably) a good idea to add Potassium Nitrate, although the amount Potassium added is very low. The Potassium is used by corals, the Sodium is not, but what I know of the usage is pretty low in normal tanks (There is some that say that a Zeolith method may decrease the Potassium levels).

Then there is the fact that Potassium is a lot heavier atom, so Potassium Nitrate has a Nitrate percentage of 61% by weigth, while Sodium Nitrate has a percentage of 73% by weight, so you have to add a little less of Sodium Nitrate to get the same effect, if you measure it by mol's of the different ions you add the same amount of Sodium ions as Potassium ions when adding rising the Nitrate by equal amounts.

So, which to use, I don't think it matters that much, use whichever is easiest to come by.

When adding my NaNO3 in my tank I get a reaction in my tests instantly, and it's weird that you don't get a reaction using that much of the supplement in that little water.

When using my 5% Nitrate solution I get a measurable rise adding 2ml in 100 liters of water. As you measure in ppm's you will get a ~1ppm rise when adding 1gram of nitrate in a 1000liters of water.